alram

7 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

Took him 15 seconds to show some real quality yesterday as he danced through their defence in the box. Took less than minutes to also show the endeavour and hard work that Warne will rate winning the ball back in his own half. 
 

He is very technically gifted, more so than the others in our attacking positions despite what some clowns will tell you about his first touch. He’d be excellent as a supporting player in this squad. 
 

 

and I’ll be honest, I was on the side of ‘don’t go back’. He took less than 5 minutes to change my mind. He looked the sharpest player in our attack when he came on and combined really nicely with Washington. 

but you shouldnt be basing a player based on 5 minutes of action, thats a recipe for disaster

lets be honest it's a ridiclous signing. people can try and paint it whatever way they want, he is not a player we need nor is he a player we really want. 

hes too old, we are not going to get out of this division by assembling dads army and turning derby into an old boys club, the sooner clowes and warne clock on that you get out of this league with young energetic players the beter

1 hour ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

It’s not a controversial take if you phrase it that way, I agree that SOME of our additions last summer, such as Hourihane and McGoldrick have had better careers than SOME of our additions this season. However the stats I’ve presented disprove your generalised comment that they’re much more league one. How can you dismiss 4 years playing at championship level as not being evidence that they are championship standard players? That simply doesn’t make sense. If they’ve been playing consistently in the championship for 3 or 4 years they are by definition championship standard players. 

As for how many I’d heard of, not sure of the relevance to your argument, but if it helps you in any way…all of them bar Wilson. 

However, I’ve got nothing to gain by challenging your opinion and it’s quite clear you don’t want to see any potential positives so I’ll leave you to your views and hope you see the best of the signings we’ve made eventually. 

It’s not playing 4 years regularly nor making a meaningful contribution at that level for teams that are generally bottom half 

23 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

I’m not saying they’ve had better careers, that wasn’t the point you originally made. You said our signings are “much more league one than championship” which in my opinion is another nonsense generalisation on your part. 

Bradley and Nelson have spent 4 years playing championship football and captaining sides at that level, they must have something about them that multiple football managers have seen so I’ll trust their judgement over yours. They’re also younger than Stearman, Chester and Davies so much closer to their peak years. 
Elder was a key figure in the dressing room at Hull and contributed to their promotion from league one and establishing themselves back in the championship. 
 

You’ve also misremembered or reinvented last summer. We only had 5 contracted players at the point the club was saved, the club then re-signed those willing to stay and signed other players still available having started the recruitment process later than all other sides. A good, but imbalanced squad was put together lacking depth and with an age disparity present between the younger and senior pros. There’s now more balance, less of an age difference within the squad, and depth in some areas with an intent to address the depth we still need. It simply is not the disastrous situation you seem repeatedly keen to invent. 

much more league one in ability than championship and i stand by that point whatever stats about apperences you put forward.

how many of them had you heard of before we signed them this summer?

the players last summer we targeted were highly quality and pedigree than this summers i am not sure why thats a contravercial take

23 hours ago, FlyBritishMidland said:

You do remember the restrictions being eased?  This is from the BBC website on 10 May……”It was reported by BBC Radio Derby that the League One club will be able to operate without restrictions when the transfer window opens in the summer, and that they will instead be monitored by the EFL against their own budget and business plan.”

It goes on to say that transfer and loan fees can now be paid.  Warne obviously can spend money, he’s choosing how to spend it, as others have said.  He could spend a fee on a player but add on the agents fee, wages, etc he’ll be limiting the number of players he can bring in.  No doubt we’ve incurred agents fees with our signings so far as there’s no such thing as a free transfer.  Plus, I expect any loans will incur a fee, therefore widening our choice.

This is very sensible approach.  And I suspect he’ll want to leave a proportion of his budget for January so he can strengthen further a recruit a loan if we get a serious injury.

yeah i know they are being "eased" but just think they are less eased than the club / media are letting on

20 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not finding anything hard to understand, I'm just telling you facts.

If someone is paid £100 per week and you calculate after deductions that they are due £60 and you then pay them that, it doesn't mean you have £40 in your pocket 😂

In our case, where we had no income it just meant we borrowed £60 to pay the players, rather than borrow £100 to pay the players and HMRC.

I'm afraid I can't make the explanation any more simple than that, so if you still cant understand I'll have to leave it there I'm afraid. 

As for not accepting the EFL loan, once again I'd suggest you're incorrect. The EFL set conditions that they knew we could not meet and it was therefore said that we did not apply for it, although from memory that was disputed by MM.

Once again I'm not defending MM, I'm just pointing out that your assertion that we were withholding PAYE payments and spending it on players would appear to be wrong with all of the evidence available in the public domain. 

why do you keep repeating the exact same argument?

i know full well how it works.  

somebody is earns £100 a week, you pay them £60 and set aside £40 for the tax man. key word SET ASIDE, it's still in your possession and you can do with it as you please if you decide not to pay the tax man which is what he did. 

now if you could provide a different argument to prove your wrong point i would be happy,, and by the way you are defending MM. our tax bill was way higher than what is realistic BECAUSE he was not paying it off at the end of the financial year like every other football club

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Not true at all.

Warne is choosing how he spends his budget - you understand that's how budgets work, right?

"Speaking after the 3-0 win over Stoke City at the weekend, Warne said: "If I wanted to buy a player it would have to come out of my budget and I only have so much left for wages.

"It would have to be an unbelievable player but if I am buying a player for £200k-£300k then I am not sure he's unbelievable.

"So if I buy a player for that amount, plus his wages, then I can only bring one player in if that's the case.

"I have to make good decisions for the football club and the team, I understand that.

"But if we are going to get a player in who is better than what we have here and he is currently under contract, then you're going to do well to get a number nine for £200k.

"It's either a free or a loan. Those our options."

yeah, i understand how budgets work.

those are quotes of a manager thats working for a club that cant spend any money

not sure why it is such a contraversial opinion that we are still under a pretty strict business plan

3 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Here’s some info about our signings, as has already been pointed out 5 of the 7 joined us from championship clubs and 1 from a relegated side, all 6 played championship football last season. The 7th signing played league one football last season in a team that finished above ours. 

Sonny Bradley (31) - spent the last 4 years in the championship making 120 appearances in that time, captaining a side promoted to the premier league last season.

Curtis Nelson (30) - spent the last 4 years in the championship making 136 appearances in that time. 

Callum Elder (28) - spent 3 of the last 4 seasons in the championship, making 91 appearances. In his one season in league one made 44 apps, made team of the year and his club side won promotion.

Conor Washington (31) - played 35 times in the championship last season, 2 years in league one before that making 71 apps and scoring 22 goals (11 both seasons)

Josh Vickers (27) - 3 championship appearances last year, 20 league one appearances the year before.

Joe Ward (27) - 42 league one appearances last season (in a side that finished above us), 38 championship appearances the season before that.

Kane Wilson (23) - 5 championship appearances last season. 45 league two appearances the year before, made team of the season and his club side were promoted to league one.

Based on the above info I’d argue 2, maybe 3 of the signings are “more league one than championship”, and not “much more” just more. Those being Vickers as a backup keeper who’s mainly made appearances in lower leagues, Wilson who’s only played full seasons (due to injury) in the lower leagues, and maybe Joe Ward as he joined from a league one side and spent last season assisting and scoring at this level. 
 

Oh and again this idea we’re “cashing in” or the squad is being “dismantled”….we’ve sold Knight at a profit which seems appropriate given his head had seemingly been turned and he only had a year to go on his deal. Bielik was always going to leave and wasn’t part of the squad last season. McGoldrick chose to leave, seemingly for sentimental reasons. There’s been no “cashing in on players”.

I dont believe any of them made any kind of impact at the level above, compared to many that did last year. you cant tell me any of those had better careers at the level above compared to last summers signings like mcgoldrick & hourihane just to name 2? they are more established league one than established championship

cashing in or not, we were holding out letting players leave last summer to go for promotion, this year we cant afford that luxury.

4 hours ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Mel didn’t reject the Covid money , we along with others under restrictions were not allowed to apply for it. 
For all Mel’s sins this was not one of them and caused us major problems. 

fair enough then - count me corrected on that point

1 minute ago, Foreveram said:

It’s amazing how we’ve got all these players in for nothing with no wages and no agents fees.

i think its clear we gambled for a quick return last year, we retained most players that had any value and went all in on older players with high wages - i think DC reaction early on in the season when he brought warne in quickly probably backs this up?

this season however the signings are much more league one than championship and we are cashing in on players that have any value left

might be an unpopular one on here but tom lawrence has to make the list surely

i cant believe keogh has made it but not him

he was the main culprit of the drink driving incident that ruined 2 other players careers, acted like a petulant child through most of his time here and then left on a free after us getting relegated (where he got a stupid red card in a pivitol game)

just because he was talented shouldnt mean hes ruled out, he was one of the most dislikable people to ever put on a derby shirt.

not even mentioning him becoming mates with chris kirchner which was just strange and careless

i think the main issue is wages that we tied up on older players last season

i also think the business plan is much stricter than we are lead to believe this season, we dont seem capable of spending any money at all

20 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

If someone is on £100 per week, you deduct £40 in tax and nic, then pay them £60, it does not mean you have £40 in your pocket. It means you have spent £60. Not sure what you are finding so hard to understand about this?

Once again you're factually incorrect on the second point, the EFL provided support to 70 of the 72 clubs I think, there's no hint to be given, they just didn't give any support to clubs that were under EFL restrictions. 

i am not sure what YOU find so hard to understand? The £40 is SUPPOSED to be set aside for the tax man when the bill is due to be paid.

If you spend that money you cant pay the tax man, we couldnt pay the tax man, and kept using the money set aside to run the club - thus increasing the tax bill to an unsustainable amount that we could not pay.

so out of the 72 clubs, 2 didnt accept it, one of them was us with the most unsustainable tax bill of the lot. hmmmm, yes....

no idea why you continue to defend what he did, must be stockholm syndrome or your his grand son

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

so is dismantling our squad of its best players still a good option then? 

this has the makings of a long season i hope im wrong

15 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

He wasn't setting any money aside, there was no income, it was during Covid when there was no income that the debt started to mount up.

If someone is paid £100 gross a week and you pay them £60 after deductions it doesn't mean that you have £40 in your pocket, it means that you owe £40 to the taxman.

So it's not like he then had £40 to go out and spend on players.

That's not defending anyone, that's just pointing out that what you are saying is incorrect.

 

It is like having £40 in your pocket if you have no intention to pay the taxman which is what happened. he didnt let debt mount up over one year, it was over several and him not submitting the accounts was him hiding that he was spending the clubs tax deductions.

its strange how every other club managed to pay their tax bill over the same period & mel even refused EFL funding to cover the tax bill. HINT: because he would have to tell the efl he wasnt going to pay the tax bill

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well based on the fact that our players were being paid for instalments, and they were also outstanding when we went into administration, he wasnt spending it on players.

spending it on players, spending it to run the club, spending it on breakfast - bottom line is it wasnt set aside to pay the tax bill it was used so HE didnt have to put his hand in his pocket and spend HIS money.

once you start spending money that isnt yours you know exactly what you are doing as an owner of a club, the only long term saviour from what he was doing would have been promotion, he would have known this and it was a borderline criminal what he did. how stubborn do you have to be to defend the man even after everything that panned out

3 minutes ago, eddy779h34 said:

Really ?   how many shots did we have apart from the goals  , The wing back helped us get forward a bit but centre midfield  ...no bite  A typical case of the score clouds your thoughts . I am Derby through and through but we looked really good in defence in in the centre of midfield we struggled to control the game in any shape of form 

 

this has got to be a red dog

12 minutes ago, eddy779h34 said:

I don't think so...... I thought Stoke were far the better team ....... Derby have got big problems in midfield and it needs addressing 

We are really lightweight and sit too deep. When Smith went off we were awful ... It has to be said, also we need more pace up front 

they should look the better team, they are in the league above us, the fact is we won comfortably

i dont disagree that we still need to improve but stoke were not by far the better team today, that is nonsense

if warne ball is beating teams by 3 goals in the division above then sign me up

22 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

No

what did he spend then? our tax bill remained unpaid and we racked up a tax bill about 3x higher than everyone else. the only explanation was he used that money to run the club when it should have been put aside for the tax man

2 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Don’t hate the player, hate the game. It’s not Mel’s job to rewrite the law. Morally wrong but not legally wrong. 

its only not legally wrong because the people that write the laws are often the ones with interests that protect them in businesses

its completely wrong on every level, to put the club he "loves" at risk like he did was unforgivable

9 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

If Warne and the club are happy to go into the season with that being the case, that's fine. I personally feel its very light and would mean injurie could be catastrophic. I'd say we need at least 3-4, possibly even more factoring that a number of our squad have been unreliable with injuries. 

We had 6 of our 16 senior outfield players injured last night, for example. 

 

we are a very top heavy team, we will have big earners at this level so following a business plan would probably mean we will have to have a tiny squad to afford to pay such players

its another issue with so many of the older players we signed last summer

11 hours ago, Shipley Ram said:

What nonsnense. Mel, the p****, put one of his limited companies into administration. The outstanding debts were all dealt with by by the administrators under business law. Any of us could put our limited companies into administration for any outstanding debts to be resolved in this way. I don't aprove of how Mel conducted himself, but to suggest there is anything imprisonable about it is quite wrong. If you have a problem with this perhaps you should approach your MP about changing the insolvency laws?

What do you think of Ken Bates who managed to put Leeds into admin, pay the creditors, including HMRC, 8%, and bought back Leeds from the admin debt free? I almost wish Mel had pulled the same trick to see the resulting treetard hysteria, apart from the EFL wouldn't have taked their foot off our neck whist Mel was in charge. 

didnt mel spend the tax from the employees PAYE to buy players? 

you are right he didnt break any laws but there should be laws preventing it in the first place, he misallocated money that the employees paid in tax and made the club unable to pay the tax bill

how anyone can defend that man is beyond me

So was it not true?

On 14/07/2023 at 09:38, Chellaston Ram said:

I think our next striker will Ladapo and Warne is just waiting for Ipswich to sign another striker to replace him 

i mentioned his name at the start of the summer i wouldnt be suprised if we got him