Icomeinpeace

Never thought after crooks like Maxwell and the amigos screwed us over it would be a 'fan' that actually landed us in this mess.
After starting the season off I can't believe Mel has pulled the plug so soon. Negotiations aside, which surely he knew would fail, why start it if you have no intention to see it through?
His commitment should have been seeing a season through. I imagine things would have been a lot easier, shifting players, staffing back up and potentially finding buyers during the summer. To not try and move players out during the summer and buy ourselves some leeway is nothing short of head in the sand (or clouds).
For me at the end of the day, there is a responsibility that comes with owning a club, you are the caretaker/guardian and nothing more. Obviously things were going out of control after the Lampard season, so why not reverse the trend then and there? Why throw crazy contracts at Cocu and co, why not re-sell Marriott, Waghorn et al with a year lor 2 left on their deals (especially as they had actually performed) - even if it's for a loss we would have got something and think of the wages we could have saved. Also it flies in the face of Mel's amortisation BS. Apparently players don't lose value quickly in the first year or so, but it drops sharply at the end of that, so he must have known they'd soon be worth millions less.
Could have gone into the season utilising Bird, Knight, Bogle and brought in players on vastly less than Lawrence etc, turning the finances round, catching up with some debts, and avoiding administration and a points deductions in tandem.
Aren't there signs all around the stadium - gamble responsibly, set limits, don't chance losses. Mel is either an egomaniac or a clueless businessman and the blame for all this falls nowhere but at his feet. 
Right now he should apologise, throw £50m in to clear debts and leave the city/county/country/planet. If he can't do that he's not a fan.

I believe I've read elsewhere that Mel's other business interests have been doing well so although he may have spent 200m and have 300 to fall back on from that he's actually been making money elsewhere... the timing of his decision is "odd"  

No they don't use their own money - in fact their fees are added to the debt as are any legal costs that may in some cases be incurred during the process - its sometimes said that the first thing any potential administrator checks is that their own fees can be paid at the end of the process (even if that end is liquidation). I believe Kieran Maguire said Bury’s administrators were charging £250 per hour..... 

No they don't use their own money - in fact their fees are added to the debt as are any legal costs that may in some cases be incurred during the process - its sometimes said that the first thing any potential administrator checks is that their own fees can be paid at the end of the process (even if that end is liquidation). I believe Kieran Maguire said Bury’s administrators were charging £250 per hour..... 

Sorry - not trying to rub anything in, honestly wish you all the best of luck

Sorry - not trying to rub anything in, honestly wish you all the best of luck

Sorry - not trying to rub anything in, honestly wish you all the best of luck

They do you're right - but where is the potential for profit? You have to take a  balanced look at any potential prospects. I'm not having a go here because I'm a red. I think my posts show I have no issues with Derby at all, but as we've said you're around +£30-60 million in immediate debt, and in administration so any funds the club do have will go to paying your creditors, you've already loaned against your physical assets so no chance to use them to raise funds, with the multiple points deductions you'll in all likelihood be playing in a lower league with even less TV money, potentially a lower gate and be less attractive to sponsors plus you have very few players (even saleable ones) and an embargo on transfers .... if you had a spare £40 million to spare to invest in a club in all honestly why would you use it to effectively just pay off the debt of Derby and have nothing to invest and be in that league and position when you could probably buy a team like Sunderland and use the funds to invest in straight away and get promotion rather than spend a few years just trying to get Derby back on an even keel. I really struggle to the upside for any potential owner - at least any reputable one.    
I think the real state of the finances will only become clear over the next few weeks and months and it could get really ugly. I've heard that Kieran McGuire, the University of Liverpool football finance lecturer who does a podcast called The Price of Football  has reportedly said that he's had off the record conversations with people connected to the club and the suggestion has been that potential buyer(s) have been put off by the level of debt in the accounts. Now the "published" debt is around £37 million, I think that the deeper debt may be much higher.  

They do you're right - but where is the potential for profit? You have to take a  balanced look at any potential prospects. I'm not having a go here because I'm a red. I think my posts show I have no issues with Derby at all, but as we've said you're around +£30-60 million in immediate debt, and in administration so any funds the club do have will go to paying your creditors, you've already loaned against your physical assets so no chance to use them to raise funds, with the multiple points deductions you'll in all likelihood be playing in a lower league with even less TV money, potentially a lower gate and be less attractive to sponsors plus you have very few players (even saleable ones) and an embargo on transfers .... if you had a spare £40 million to spare to invest in a club in all honestly why would you use it to effectively just pay off the debt of Derby and have nothing to invest and be in that league and position when you could probably buy a team like Sunderland and use the funds to invest in straight away and get promotion rather than spend a few years just trying to get Derby back on an even keel. I really struggle to the upside for any potential owner - at least any reputable one.    
I think the real state of the finances will only become clear over the next few weeks and months and it could get really ugly. I've heard that Kieran McGuire, the University of Liverpool football finance lecturer who does a podcast called The Price of Football  has reportedly said that he's had off the record conversations with people connected to the club and the suggestion has been that potential buyer(s) have been put off by the level of debt in the accounts. Now the "published" debt is around £37 million, I think that the deeper debt may be much higher.  

Purely speculation but MSD are the wild card in all this - what if they call in the loan? You'd think given his MO that Mel banked on and made assurance to MSD about the riches that would come with promotion with the ground then being used as collateral...  what if they think they can make more money selling or developing the site and therefore call it in, would Mel cover it? 

Bless you and thanks - agree I always enjoy a good Derby game myself - joy was unrestrained yesterday though with Hughton's style of play not holding the team back and we're only 9 points off the play-offs !!! Many think Cooper is a good choice as the new manager which looks pretty much a done deal. Best of luck I wouldn't wish your current plight on any club, even you!!! COYReds     

I wouldn't begin to know how it could be settled as these things are a quagmire... that's now the job of the administrator, who once appointed will have 8 weeks to put a plan together. The things you mention could all be on the table, the problem is they might not be.. Cocu et al could say no we want paying asap, HMRC might not agree and your other creditors could also play hardball. I'm a very glass half full kind of bloke and I hope this can be sorted for you guys - but its a very very precarious position to be in... It's like dominoes and all it takes is a few not to fall and you're screwed...  

As a Forest fan I have no axe to grind here and as I've said I feeling genuinely appalled at what's happened to your club but can I just say that I and I suspect many external observers will find your attitude incredibly generous almost to point of disbelief. I mean of course he wanted success everyone does, but the way he's gone about it is surely unforgiveable. He has knowingly and willingly sold/mortgaged almost every bit of your club. He has recklessly played fast and loose with regulations and guidelines, not just of the EFL but of the  HMRC. These regulations aren't  new and cannot be described as anti-Derby - instead he has at every turn it seems taken decisions that would/will have dire consequences for the whole DCFC institution; the club, the players business the length and breadth of the city.... 
As for what happens now, well the the administrators are in control. Any legal actions being taken by creditors will stop so you can't go in to compulsory liquidation (moratorium). The administrator will put a plan together and must submit that proposals to all creditors within 8 weeks of the administration starting.

The administrators role is to act in the interests of eh people who are owed money by Derby, not in not Derby's interests, and if they  believe that the club is not a viable entity going forward then the administrators can/will liquidate the company.
Given the info Mel just implied re some of the outstanding issues, I hate to say it but liquation is really not out of the question at all. Sorry guys
re buyers- the thing to consider is that as DCFC doesn't own the stadium of the training ground either I believe, the club's only assets are the players - so not much. Plus your debt is around £37 Million as its 26 Million to HMRC, 6 Million in transfer fees and 5 Million roughly to Cocu and his staff. So any new buyer is looking at buying a club and paying off those debts, when they only get the players for it .... and you'll probably be in League 21 after a +20 points deduction .... seriously guys, good luck.
 

As a Forest fan I have no axe to grind here and as I've said I feeling genuinely appalled at what's happened to your club but can I just say that I and I suspect many external observers will find your attitude incredibly generous almost to point of disbelief. I mean of course he wanted success everyone does, but the way he's gone about it is surely unforgiveable. He has knowingly and willingly sold/mortgaged almost every bit of your club. He has recklessly played fast and loose with regulations and guidelines, not just of the EFL but of the  HMRC. These regulations aren't  new and cannot be described as anti-Derby - instead he has at every turn it seems taken decisions that would/will have dire consequences for the whole DCFC institution; the club, the players business the length and breadth of the city.... 
As for what happens now, well the the administrators are in control. Any legal actions being taken by creditors will stop so you can't go in to compulsory liquidation (moratorium). The administrator will put a plan together and must submit that proposals to all creditors within 8 weeks of the administration starting.

The administrators role is to act in the interests of eh people who are owed money by Derby, not in not Derby's interests, and if they  believe that the club is not a viable entity going forward then the administrators can/will liquidate the company.
Given the info Mel just implied re some of the outstanding issues, I hate to say it but liquation is really not out of the question at all. Sorry guys
re buyers- the thing to consider is that as DCFC doesn't own the stadium of the training ground either I believe, the club's only assets are the players - so not much. Plus your debt is around £37 Million as its 26 Million to HMRC, 6 Million in transfer fees and 5 Million roughly to Cocu and his staff. So any new buyer is looking at buying a club and paying off those debts, when they only get the players for it .... and you'll probably be in League 21 after a +20 points deduction .... seriously guys, good luck.
 

Sorry yes you're right - I take very much the same approach, it doesn't matter exactly why there's a huge hole in the life raft, just focus on staying afloat... 

As a Forest fan I have no axe to grind here and as I've said I feeling genuinely appalled at what's happened to your club but can I just say that I and I suspect many external observers will find your attitude incredibly generous almost to point of disbelief. I mean of course he wanted success everyone does, but the way he's gone about it is surely unforgiveable. He has knowingly and willingly sold/mortgaged almost every bit of your club. He has recklessly played fast and loose with regulations and guidelines, not just of the EFL but of the  HMRC. These regulations aren't  new and cannot be described as anti-Derby - instead he has at every turn it seems taken decisions that would/will have dire consequences for the whole DCFC institution; the club, the players business the length and breadth of the city.... 
As for what happens now, well the the administrators are in control. Any legal actions being taken by creditors will stop so you can't go in to compulsory liquidation (moratorium). The administrator will put a plan together and must submit that proposals to all creditors within 8 weeks of the administration starting.

The administrators role is to act in the interests of eh people who are owed money by Derby, not in not Derby's interests, and if they  believe that the club is not a viable entity going forward then the administrators can/will liquidate the company.
Given the info Mel just implied re some of the outstanding issues, I hate to say it but liquation is really not out of the question at all. Sorry guys
re buyers- the thing to consider is that as DCFC doesn't own the stadium of the training ground either I believe, the club's only assets are the players - so not much. Plus your debt is around £37 Million as its 26 Million to HMRC, 6 Million in transfer fees and 5 Million roughly to Cocu and his staff. So any new buyer is looking at buying a club and paying off those debts, when they only get the players for it .... and you'll probably be in League 21 after a +20 points deduction .... seriously guys, good luck.
 

As a Forest fan I have no axe to grind here and as I've said I feeling genuinely appalled at what's happened to your club but can I just say that I and I suspect many external observers will find your attitude incredibly generous almost to point of disbelief. I mean of course he wanted success everyone does, but the way he's gone about it is surely unforgiveable. He has knowingly and willingly sold/mortgaged almost every bit of your club. He has recklessly played fast and loose with regulations and guidelines, not just of the EFL but of the  HMRC. These regulations aren't  new and cannot be described as anti-Derby - instead he has at every turn it seems taken decisions that would/will have dire consequences for the whole DCFC institution; the club, the players business the length and breadth of the city.... 
As for what happens now, well the the administrators are in control. Any legal actions being taken by creditors will stop so you can't go in to compulsory liquidation (moratorium). The administrator will put a plan together and must submit that proposals to all creditors within 8 weeks of the administration starting.

The administrators role is to act in the interests of eh people who are owed money by Derby, not in not Derby's interests, and if they  believe that the club is not a viable entity going forward then the administrators can/will liquidate the company.
Given the info Mel just implied re some of the outstanding issues, I hate to say it but liquation is really not out of the question at all. Sorry guys
re buyers- the thing to consider is that as DCFC doesn't own the stadium of the training ground either I believe, the club's only assets are the players - so not much. Plus your debt is around £37 Million as its 26 Million to HMRC, 6 Million in transfer fees and 5 Million roughly to Cocu and his staff. So any new buyer is looking at buying a club and paying off those debts, when they only get the players for it .... and you'll probably be in League 21 after a +20 points deduction .... seriously guys, good luck.
 

As a Forest fan I have no axe to grind here and as I've said I feeling genuinely appalled at what's happened to your club but can I just say that I and I suspect many external observers will find your attitude incredibly generous almost to point of disbelief. I mean of course he wanted success everyone does, but the way he's gone about it is surely unforgiveable. He has knowingly and willingly sold/mortgaged almost every bit of your club. He has recklessly played fast and loose with regulations and guidelines, not just of the EFL but of the  HMRC. These regulations aren't  new and cannot be described as anti-Derby - instead he has at every turn it seems taken decisions that would/will have dire consequences for the whole DCFC institution; the club, the players business the length and breadth of the city.... 
As for what happens now, well the the administrators are in control. Any legal actions being taken by creditors will stop so you can't go in to compulsory liquidation (moratorium). The administrator will put a plan together and must submit that proposals to all creditors within 8 weeks of the administration starting.

The administrators role is to act in the interests of eh people who are owed money by Derby, not in not Derby's interests, and if they  believe that the club is not a viable entity going forward then the administrators can/will liquidate the company.
Given the info Mel just implied re some of the outstanding issues, I hate to say it but liquation is really not out of the question at all. Sorry guys
re buyers- the thing to consider is that as DCFC doesn't own the stadium of the training ground either I believe, the club's only assets are the players - so not much. Plus your debt is around £37 Million as its 26 Million to HMRC, 6 Million in transfer fees and 5 Million roughly to Cocu and his staff. So any new buyer is looking at buying a club and paying off those debts, when they only get the players for it .... and you'll probably be in League 21 after a +20 points deduction .... seriously guys, good luck.
 

I believe that is right - the loan was for 80m, so Mel doesn't even own the stadium. It's perhaps worth noting that when some have a go at the EFL for them not giving Derby a loan, they didn't decide not to, Derby didn't meet the criteria laid out for the loan which others did.  

I believe that is right - the loan was for 80m, so Mel doesn't even own the stadium. It's perhaps worth noting that when some have a go at the EFL for them not giving Derby a loan, they didn't decide not to, Derby didn't meet the criteria laid out for the loan which others did.  

As a Forest fan I have no axe to grind here and as I've said I feeling genuinely appalled at what's happened to your club but can I just say that I and I suspect many external observers will find your attitude incredibly generous almost to point of disbelief. I mean of course he wanted success everyone does, but the way he's gone about it is surely unforgiveable. He has knowingly and willingly sold/mortgaged almost every bit of your club. He has recklessly played fast and loose with regulations and guidelines, not just of the EFL but of the  HMRC. These regulations aren't  new and cannot be described as anti-Derby - instead he has at every turn it seems taken decisions that would/will have dire consequences for the whole DCFC institution; the club, the players business the length and breadth of the city.... 
As for what happens now, well the the administrators are in control. Any legal actions being taken by creditors will stop so you can't go in to compulsory liquidation (moratorium). The administrator will put a plan together and must submit that proposals to all creditors within 8 weeks of the administration starting.

The administrators role is to act in the interests of eh people who are owed money by Derby, not in not Derby's interests, and if they  believe that the club is not a viable entity going forward then the administrators can/will liquidate the company.
Given the info Mel just implied re some of the outstanding issues, I hate to say it but liquation is really not out of the question at all. Sorry guys
re buyers- the thing to consider is that as DCFC doesn't own the stadium of the training ground either I believe, the club's only assets are the players - so not much. Plus your debt is around £37 Million as its 26 Million to HMRC, 6 Million in transfer fees and 5 Million roughly to Cocu and his staff. So any new buyer is looking at buying a club and paying off those debts, when they only get the players for it .... and you'll probably be in League 21 after a +20 points deduction .... seriously guys, good luck.
 

As a Forest fan I have no axe to grind here and as I've said I feeling genuinely appalled at what's happened to your club but can I just say that I and I suspect many external observers will find your attitude incredibly generous almost to point of disbelief. I mean of course he wanted success everyone does, but the way he's gone about it is surely unforgiveable. He has knowingly and willingly sold/mortgaged almost every bit of your club. He has recklessly played fast and loose with regulations and guidelines, not just of the EFL but of the  HMRC. These regulations aren't  new and cannot be described as anti-Derby - instead he has at every turn it seems taken decisions that would/will have dire consequences for the whole DCFC institution; the club, the players business the length and breadth of the city.... 
As for what happens now, well the the administrators are in control. Any legal actions being taken by creditors will stop so you can't go in to compulsory liquidation (moratorium). The administrator will put a plan together and must submit that proposals to all creditors within 8 weeks of the administration starting.

The administrators role is to act in the interests of eh people who are owed money by Derby, not in not Derby's interests, and if they  believe that the club is not a viable entity going forward then the administrators can/will liquidate the company.
Given the info Mel just implied re some of the outstanding issues, I hate to say it but liquation is really not out of the question at all. Sorry guys
re buyers- the thing to consider is that as DCFC doesn't own the stadium of the training ground either I believe, the club's only assets are the players - so not much. Plus your debt is around £37 Million as its 26 Million to HMRC, 6 Million in transfer fees and 5 Million roughly to Cocu and his staff. So any new buyer is looking at buying a club and paying off those debts, when they only get the players for it .... and you'll probably be in League 21 after a +20 points deduction .... seriously guys, good luck.
 

As a Forest fan I feel for you guys, it's not your fault but you find your club utterly screwed by someone who has seemingly gone insane while in charge. We had a vaguely similar issue when Nigel Doherty, a lifelong fan bought us, pumped in over 100 million and made bad decision after bad decision, football's a hard hard game to get involved in but from outside it does look like MM has completely lost the plot.
You can't blame the EFL, on the face of it Mel had all the right credentials to be a fit and proper owner and while there look to be many points at which he should have been stopped from what he was doing you have to assume that no one thought he was actually doing what he was doing and seemingly submitting at best vague accounts, at worst downright fraudulent. COVID didn't help anyone but its not to blame either.  
A 12 point deduction is bad but worse looks like its coming and you have to think you can't stay up. I wish you luck in the first division. 

As a Forest fan I feel for you guys, it's not your fault but you find your club utterly screwed by someone who has seemingly gone insane while in charge. We had a vaguely similar issue when Nigel Doherty, a lifelong fan bought us, pumped in over 100 million and made bad decision after bad decision, football's a hard hard game to get involved in but from outside it does look like MM has completely lost the plot.
You can't blame the EFL, on the face of it Mel had all the right credentials to be a fit and proper owner and while there look to be many points at which he should have been stopped from what he was doing you have to assume that no one thought he was actually doing what he was doing and seemingly submitting at best vague accounts, at worst downright fraudulent. COVID didn't help anyone but its not to blame either.  
A 12 point deduction is bad but worse looks like its coming and you have to think you can't stay up. I wish you luck in the first division. 

As a Forest fan I feel for you guys, it's not your fault but you find your club utterly screwed by someone who has seemingly gone insane while in charge. We had a vaguely similar issue when Nigel Doherty, a lifelong fan bought us, pumped in over 100 million and made bad decision after bad decision, football's a hard hard game to get involved in but from outside it does look like MM has completely lost the plot.
You can't blame the EFL, on the face of it Mel had all the right credentials to be a fit and proper owner and while there look to be many points at which he should have been stopped from what he was doing you have to assume that no one thought he was actually doing what he was doing and seemingly submitting at best vague accounts, at worst downright fraudulent. COVID didn't help anyone but its not to blame either.  
A 12 point deduction is bad but worse looks like its coming and you have to think you can't stay up. I wish you luck in the first division.