Normanton Lad

That session you attended where non-white people complained about white people was very unfair to you. Was there a similar session where a non-white person had to listen to white people complaining about non-white people? I have been racially insulted by black people but I don’t regard black people in general as being prejudiced. Wherever you go you will get people who will insult you. You can’t blame whole racial groups for the actions of individuals.

We should be treated as individuals. You shouldn’t feel guilt or shame, or be put in a session where someone tries to make you feel guilt or shame, for something that had nothing to do with you as an individual. 

I have been attacked on this thread for saying that if someone makes a claim you shouldn’t just accept it as truth. I care about truth. The woman’s story about the cruel teacher seemed very unlikely to me for three reasons. First, it was a very cruel thing for a teacher to say and in my experience I have never known teachers who would act that way. Secondly, what the teacher said would be a very difficult thing for a child of seven to understand. The teacher is expecting the child to know that the teacher assesses the truth value of rival claims using her background knowledge. Furthermore, the teacher is expecting the child to know that her background knowledge tells her to always believe the white kid rather than the black kid. Thirdly, we have very few if any genuine memories from the age of seven. I can’t remember a single thing from my seventh year and I am a person who spends a lot of time thinking about the past. 

It is possible that the woman is telling truth but I don’t feel guilty for not believing her. If I was accused of a crime where all the evidence pointed to my guilt even though I wasn’t guilty I would just accept my punishment as bad luck. I wouldn’t run around screaming about the unfairness of the world. Absolute truth is a thing but people are not omniscient and we have to we have to rely on what the evidence tells us.
 

I don't think Charlie George had much respect for managers who weren't good players. I know he had bust ups with Colin Murphy on the training pitch. He didn't get on with Bertie Mee. Although Bertie only played a few league games - for Mansfield - his brother George Mee had a long career at Derby and elsewhere.

The reserve team set up today is all about bringing the youngster through rather than keeping experienced but aging players on the books.
Those of us who watched the reserves in the 1960s and 1970s got the chance to see some famous names in reserve games.

The other day someone posted on a thread that I can’t find now that his cousin – Peter Stone-  had been a reserve player for Derby in the 1960s. I had forgotten Stone but I can see from the records that I must have seen him play many times. It just shows how fallible our memories are. The reserve players I remember are the ones who stayed in the game usually by moving to a smaller club, e.g. Barry Butlin, Cork, Boyer, etc. I followed their careers and it always pleased me to see them doing well elsewhere. I don’t know why but I followed Mick Jones’s career quite closely and I was delighted when he got the job as manager of Telford and disappointed when they went bust shorty after. He ended up with better jobs so it wasn’t such a big thing for him. A few years ago he caused a bit of a controversy when he told a reporter that Derby was no longer the place he remembered from his days as a reserve player. After a long walk around the city he said it had gone a long way downhill and he wasn’t wrong.

We all wish that we had played at least one game in the league. I even envy reserve players who never got a first team game. In the reserves they would have played against some top players and they can always say to their grandchildren that they played against this or that famous player. I can see from the records that Stone played against Stan Bowles when Stan was playing for Man City reserves. I can’t remember anything about that game except that Ralph Brand was also playing for City. I’ve always followed Scottish football and it was an exciting thing for me to see Brand play live. I even went to a Forest game just to see Jim Baxter play. Perhaps Stone can tell his descendants, if he has any, that he had Bowles and Brand in his pocket. I don’t know if he did or not. 

One of my favourite reserve games was against Bury in 1975 or 1976. Derby had Alan Hinton, Leighton James and Roger Davies up front. I think Derby beat them 8-0.

Has anyone got any memories of famous players in reserve games?
 

The reserve team set up today is all about bringing the youngster through rather than keeping experienced but aging players on the books.
Those of us who watched the reserves in the 1960s and 1970s got the chance to see some famous names in reserve games.

The other day someone posted on a thread that I can’t find now that his cousin – Peter Stone-  had been a reserve player for Derby in the 1960s. I had forgotten Stone but I can see from the records that I must have seen him play many times. It just shows how fallible our memories are. The reserve players I remember are the ones who stayed in the game usually by moving to a smaller club, e.g. Barry Butlin, Cork, Boyer, etc. I followed their careers and it always pleased me to see them doing well elsewhere. I don’t know why but I followed Mick Jones’s career quite closely and I was delighted when he got the job as manager of Telford and disappointed when they went bust shorty after. He ended up with better jobs so it wasn’t such a big thing for him. A few years ago he caused a bit of a controversy when he told a reporter that Derby was no longer the place he remembered from his days as a reserve player. After a long walk around the city he said it had gone a long way downhill and he wasn’t wrong.

We all wish that we had played at least one game in the league. I even envy reserve players who never got a first team game. In the reserves they would have played against some top players and they can always say to their grandchildren that they played against this or that famous player. I can see from the records that Stone played against Stan Bowles when Stan was playing for Man City reserves. I can’t remember anything about that game except that Ralph Brand was also playing for City. I’ve always followed Scottish football and it was an exciting thing for me to see Brand play live. I even went to a Forest game just to see Jim Baxter play. Perhaps Stone can tell his descendants, if he has any, that he had Bowles and Brand in his pocket. I don’t know if he did or not. 

One of my favourite reserve games was against Bury in 1975 or 1976. Derby had Alan Hinton, Leighton James and Roger Davies up front. I think Derby beat them 8-0.

Has anyone got any memories of famous players in reserve games?
 

The reserve team set up today is all about bringing the youngster through rather than keeping experienced but aging players on the books.
Those of us who watched the reserves in the 1960s and 1970s got the chance to see some famous names in reserve games.

The other day someone posted on a thread that I can’t find now that his cousin – Peter Stone-  had been a reserve player for Derby in the 1960s. I had forgotten Stone but I can see from the records that I must have seen him play many times. It just shows how fallible our memories are. The reserve players I remember are the ones who stayed in the game usually by moving to a smaller club, e.g. Barry Butlin, Cork, Boyer, etc. I followed their careers and it always pleased me to see them doing well elsewhere. I don’t know why but I followed Mick Jones’s career quite closely and I was delighted when he got the job as manager of Telford and disappointed when they went bust shorty after. He ended up with better jobs so it wasn’t such a big thing for him. A few years ago he caused a bit of a controversy when he told a reporter that Derby was no longer the place he remembered from his days as a reserve player. After a long walk around the city he said it had gone a long way downhill and he wasn’t wrong.

We all wish that we had played at least one game in the league. I even envy reserve players who never got a first team game. In the reserves they would have played against some top players and they can always say to their grandchildren that they played against this or that famous player. I can see from the records that Stone played against Stan Bowles when Stan was playing for Man City reserves. I can’t remember anything about that game except that Ralph Brand was also playing for City. I’ve always followed Scottish football and it was an exciting thing for me to see Brand play live. I even went to a Forest game just to see Jim Baxter play. Perhaps Stone can tell his descendants, if he has any, that he had Bowles and Brand in his pocket. I don’t know if he did or not. 

One of my favourite reserve games was against Bury in 1975 or 1976. Derby had Alan Hinton, Leighton James and Roger Davies up front. I think Derby beat them 8-0.

Has anyone got any memories of famous players in reserve games?
 

That 1911 video is great.  Bill McCracken's name can be see on the Newcastle team sheet for that game. He made his debut for Distillery in 1900 and he was still involved in the game in the modern era.  He was a manager for many years and then he was a scout. He found Pat Jennings for Watford. One link says he formally retired as a scout in 1971 but I have seen other references that suggest he was still scouting almost until his death in 1979. As a player he was so influential he was the reason they changed the offside law from three to two players.
 
 
 

That 1911 video is great.  Bill McCracken's name can be see on the Newcastle team sheet for that game. He made his debut for Distillery in 1900 and he was still involved in the game in the modern era.  He was a manager for many years and then he was a scout. He found Pat Jennings for Watford. One link says he formally retired as a scout in 1971 but I have seen other references that suggest he was still scouting almost until his death in 1979. As a player he was so influential he was the reason they changed the offside law from three to two players.
 
 
 

Those of us who remember the old ground can see that apart from the floodlights that ground was the same in 1939 as it was in 1969 before they build the Ley Stand. I imagine they spent nothing on it except a few bob for paint and whitewash. Very little money went into the club. We had shopkeepers as directors rather than oligarchs. They didn't spend much but at least they kept us on an even keel.

There is no such thing a "folk construct strawman fallacy". That doesn’t mean anything. If you mean I have misrepresented his argument then I disagree. He used two stories to support his claim about racism. I have shown that the story about the teacher and the 7 year old is almost certainly not true. Do you think it is true? Be honest and don’t just revert to insults. The second story where he had to listen to complaints from non-whites presumably about whites strikes me as racist against him. It seems like an attempt to guilt trip him just because he was white. Did he have the opportunity to complain about non-white racism? If the “about forty year old woman” was one of the complainers would he have had the opportunity to question the truth of the story? I doubt it. I think that would also be classified as racism. In the current climate even questioning the truth of racism claims is proof of racism. 

Why did he come up with these two stories? Some would say he was angry about racism but I think he probably had an ulterior motive. He was signalling to fellow “wokies” on here that he a “good person” like them.  Nowadays it is called virtue signalling. I’ve not posted much on here about non-football topics because as a “non-wokie” I can see I am an interloper. Don’t bother rushing in with the insults because I’m just going to stick to threads of little interest to wokies. 
 

There is no such thing a "folk construct strawman fallacy". That doesn’t mean anything. If you mean I have misrepresented his argument then I disagree. He used two stories to support his claim about racism. I have shown that the story about the teacher and the 7 year old is almost certainly not true. Do you think it is true? Be honest and don’t just revert to insults. The second story where he had to listen to complaints from non-whites presumably about whites strikes me as racist against him. It seems like an attempt to guilt trip him just because he was white. Did he have the opportunity to complain about non-white racism? If the “about forty year old woman” was one of the complainers would he have had the opportunity to question the truth of the story? I doubt it. I think that would also be classified as racism. In the current climate even questioning the truth of racism claims is proof of racism. 

Why did he come up with these two stories? Some would say he was angry about racism but I think he probably had an ulterior motive. He was signalling to fellow “wokies” on here that he a “good person” like them.  Nowadays it is called virtue signalling. I’ve not posted much on here about non-football topics because as a “non-wokie” I can see I am an interloper. Don’t bother rushing in with the insults because I’m just going to stick to threads of little interest to wokies. 
 

There is no such thing a "folk construct strawman fallacy". That doesn’t mean anything. If you mean I have misrepresented his argument then I disagree. He used two stories to support his claim about racism. I have shown that the story about the teacher and the 7 year old is almost certainly not true. Do you think it is true? Be honest and don’t just revert to insults. The second story where he had to listen to complaints from non-whites presumably about whites strikes me as racist against him. It seems like an attempt to guilt trip him just because he was white. Did he have the opportunity to complain about non-white racism? If the “about forty year old woman” was one of the complainers would he have had the opportunity to question the truth of the story? I doubt it. I think that would also be classified as racism. In the current climate even questioning the truth of racism claims is proof of racism. 

Why did he come up with these two stories? Some would say he was angry about racism but I think he probably had an ulterior motive. He was signalling to fellow “wokies” on here that he a “good person” like them.  Nowadays it is called virtue signalling. I’ve not posted much on here about non-football topics because as a “non-wokie” I can see I am an interloper. Don’t bother rushing in with the insults because I’m just going to stick to threads of little interest to wokies. 
 

There is no such thing a "folk construct strawman fallacy". That doesn’t mean anything. If you mean I have misrepresented his argument then I disagree. He used two stories to support his claim about racism. I have shown that the story about the teacher and the 7 year old is almost certainly not true. Do you think it is true? Be honest and don’t just revert to insults. The second story where he had to listen to complaints from non-whites presumably about whites strikes me as racist against him. It seems like an attempt to guilt trip him just because he was white. Did he have the opportunity to complain about non-white racism? If the “about forty year old woman” was one of the complainers would he have had the opportunity to question the truth of the story? I doubt it. I think that would also be classified as racism. In the current climate even questioning the truth of racism claims is proof of racism. 

Why did he come up with these two stories? Some would say he was angry about racism but I think he probably had an ulterior motive. He was signalling to fellow “wokies” on here that he a “good person” like them.  Nowadays it is called virtue signalling. I’ve not posted much on here about non-football topics because as a “non-wokie” I can see I am an interloper. Don’t bother rushing in with the insults because I’m just going to stick to threads of little interest to wokies. 
 

There is no such thing a "folk construct strawman fallacy". That doesn’t mean anything. If you mean I have misrepresented his argument then I disagree. He used two stories to support his claim about racism. I have shown that the story about the teacher and the 7 year old is almost certainly not true. Do you think it is true? Be honest and don’t just revert to insults. The second story where he had to listen to complaints from non-whites presumably about whites strikes me as racist against him. It seems like an attempt to guilt trip him just because he was white. Did he have the opportunity to complain about non-white racism? If the “about forty year old woman” was one of the complainers would he have had the opportunity to question the truth of the story? I doubt it. I think that would also be classified as racism. In the current climate even questioning the truth of racism claims is proof of racism. 

Why did he come up with these two stories? Some would say he was angry about racism but I think he probably had an ulterior motive. He was signalling to fellow “wokies” on here that he a “good person” like them.  Nowadays it is called virtue signalling. I’ve not posted much on here about non-football topics because as a “non-wokie” I can see I am an interloper. Don’t bother rushing in with the insults because I’m just going to stick to threads of little interest to wokies. 
 

There is no such thing a "folk construct strawman fallacy". That doesn’t mean anything. If you mean I have misrepresented his argument then I disagree. He used two stories to support his claim about racism. I have shown that the story about the teacher and the 7 year old is almost certainly not true. Do you think it is true? Be honest and don’t just revert to insults. The second story where he had to listen to complaints from non-whites presumably about whites strikes me as racist against him. It seems like an attempt to guilt trip him just because he was white. Did he have the opportunity to complain about non-white racism? If the “about forty year old woman” was one of the complainers would he have had the opportunity to question the truth of the story? I doubt it. I think that would also be classified as racism. In the current climate even questioning the truth of racism claims is proof of racism. 

Why did he come up with these two stories? Some would say he was angry about racism but I think he probably had an ulterior motive. He was signalling to fellow “wokies” on here that he a “good person” like them.  Nowadays it is called virtue signalling. I’ve not posted much on here about non-football topics because as a “non-wokie” I can see I am an interloper. Don’t bother rushing in with the insults because I’m just going to stick to threads of little interest to wokies. 
 

That session you attended where non-white people complained about white people was very unfair to you. Was there a similar session where a non-white person had to listen to white people complaining about non-white people? I have been racially insulted by black people but I don’t regard black people in general as being prejudiced. Wherever you go you will get people who will insult you. You can’t blame whole racial groups for the actions of individuals.

We should be treated as individuals. You shouldn’t feel guilt or shame, or be put in a session where someone tries to make you feel guilt or shame, for something that had nothing to do with you as an individual. 

I have been attacked on this thread for saying that if someone makes a claim you shouldn’t just accept it as truth. I care about truth. The woman’s story about the cruel teacher seemed very unlikely to me for three reasons. First, it was a very cruel thing for a teacher to say and in my experience I have never known teachers who would act that way. Secondly, what the teacher said would be a very difficult thing for a child of seven to understand. The teacher is expecting the child to know that the teacher assesses the truth value of rival claims using her background knowledge. Furthermore, the teacher is expecting the child to know that her background knowledge tells her to always believe the white kid rather than the black kid. Thirdly, we have very few if any genuine memories from the age of seven. I can’t remember a single thing from my seventh year and I am a person who spends a lot of time thinking about the past. 

It is possible that the woman is telling truth but I don’t feel guilty for not believing her. If I was accused of a crime where all the evidence pointed to my guilt even though I wasn’t guilty I would just accept my punishment as bad luck. I wouldn’t run around screaming about the unfairness of the world. Absolute truth is a thing but people are not omniscient and we have to we have to rely on what the evidence tells us.
 

That session you attended where non-white people complained about white people was very unfair to you. Was there a similar session where a non-white person had to listen to white people complaining about non-white people? I have been racially insulted by black people but I don’t regard black people in general as being prejudiced. Wherever you go you will get people who will insult you. You can’t blame whole racial groups for the actions of individuals.

We should be treated as individuals. You shouldn’t feel guilt or shame, or be put in a session where someone tries to make you feel guilt or shame, for something that had nothing to do with you as an individual. 

I have been attacked on this thread for saying that if someone makes a claim you shouldn’t just accept it as truth. I care about truth. The woman’s story about the cruel teacher seemed very unlikely to me for three reasons. First, it was a very cruel thing for a teacher to say and in my experience I have never known teachers who would act that way. Secondly, what the teacher said would be a very difficult thing for a child of seven to understand. The teacher is expecting the child to know that the teacher assesses the truth value of rival claims using her background knowledge. Furthermore, the teacher is expecting the child to know that her background knowledge tells her to always believe the white kid rather than the black kid. Thirdly, we have very few if any genuine memories from the age of seven. I can’t remember a single thing from my seventh year and I am a person who spends a lot of time thinking about the past. 

It is possible that the woman is telling truth but I don’t feel guilty for not believing her. If I was accused of a crime where all the evidence pointed to my guilt even though I wasn’t guilty I would just accept my punishment as bad luck. I wouldn’t run around screaming about the unfairness of the world. Absolute truth is a thing but people are not omniscient and we have to we have to rely on what the evidence tells us.
 

That session you attended where non-white people complained about white people was very unfair to you. Was there a similar session where a non-white person had to listen to white people complaining about non-white people? I have been racially insulted by black people but I don’t regard black people in general as being prejudiced. Wherever you go you will get people who will insult you. You can’t blame whole racial groups for the actions of individuals.

We should be treated as individuals. You shouldn’t feel guilt or shame, or be put in a session where someone tries to make you feel guilt or shame, for something that had nothing to do with you as an individual. 

I have been attacked on this thread for saying that if someone makes a claim you shouldn’t just accept it as truth. I care about truth. The woman’s story about the cruel teacher seemed very unlikely to me for three reasons. First, it was a very cruel thing for a teacher to say and in my experience I have never known teachers who would act that way. Secondly, what the teacher said would be a very difficult thing for a child of seven to understand. The teacher is expecting the child to know that the teacher assesses the truth value of rival claims using her background knowledge. Furthermore, the teacher is expecting the child to know that her background knowledge tells her to always believe the white kid rather than the black kid. Thirdly, we have very few if any genuine memories from the age of seven. I can’t remember a single thing from my seventh year and I am a person who spends a lot of time thinking about the past. 

It is possible that the woman is telling truth but I don’t feel guilty for not believing her. If I was accused of a crime where all the evidence pointed to my guilt even though I wasn’t guilty I would just accept my punishment as bad luck. I wouldn’t run around screaming about the unfairness of the world. Absolute truth is a thing but people are not omniscient and we have to we have to rely on what the evidence tells us.
 

That session you attended where non-white people complained about white people was very unfair to you. Was there a similar session where a non-white person had to listen to white people complaining about non-white people? I have been racially insulted by black people but I don’t regard black people in general as being prejudiced. Wherever you go you will get people who will insult you. You can’t blame whole racial groups for the actions of individuals.

We should be treated as individuals. You shouldn’t feel guilt or shame, or be put in a session where someone tries to make you feel guilt or shame, for something that had nothing to do with you as an individual. 

I have been attacked on this thread for saying that if someone makes a claim you shouldn’t just accept it as truth. I care about truth. The woman’s story about the cruel teacher seemed very unlikely to me for three reasons. First, it was a very cruel thing for a teacher to say and in my experience I have never known teachers who would act that way. Secondly, what the teacher said would be a very difficult thing for a child of seven to understand. The teacher is expecting the child to know that the teacher assesses the truth value of rival claims using her background knowledge. Furthermore, the teacher is expecting the child to know that her background knowledge tells her to always believe the white kid rather than the black kid. Thirdly, we have very few if any genuine memories from the age of seven. I can’t remember a single thing from my seventh year and I am a person who spends a lot of time thinking about the past. 

It is possible that the woman is telling truth but I don’t feel guilty for not believing her. If I was accused of a crime where all the evidence pointed to my guilt even though I wasn’t guilty I would just accept my punishment as bad luck. I wouldn’t run around screaming about the unfairness of the world. Absolute truth is a thing but people are not omniscient and we have to we have to rely on what the evidence tells us.
 

All sensible parents must know by now that our government has been lying to them all their lives. If you don't expect them to tell the truth why would you trust our government or their agents (teachers) to be able to tell your children what is right and wrong.
It is up to the parents to pass on moral standards and the traditions you want your children to keep.  If the schools are brainwashing your children with nonsense you need to teach your children about cults and deprogramme them.
If you accept all this nonsense yourself then there is no hope for you or your children.

It is well over half a century since I left school but by some freak of nature I still have children at school. I know what is going on in schools today. Teachers are commissars. They are instructing children on how they should think and behave in accordance with government guidelines. Any teacher who goes against the current woke zeitgeist is punished. For example, if they said a man cannot become a woman for obvious genetic reasons then they would be harassed and publicly humiliated. If a teacher today expressed the political and social views of an average person of my age they would probably be arrested as well as being sacked.

This summer I was walking through the park with my youngest son and we passed a heavily tattooed woman with a crewcut and half a ton of metal work on a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp. When she passed my son said she was a teacher at his school and she was "transitioning". When I was at school such a person would not have been allowed to teach. She would not have been regarded as someone who could be trusted to pass on the social norms required by the government of the day. Teachers have always been agents of the government.
 

It is well over half a century since I left school but by some freak of nature I still have children at school. I know what is going on in schools today. Teachers are commissars. They are instructing children on how they should think and behave in accordance with government guidelines. Any teacher who goes against the current woke zeitgeist is punished. For example, if they said a man cannot become a woman for obvious genetic reasons then they would be harassed and publicly humiliated. If a teacher today expressed the political and social views of an average person of my age they would probably be arrested as well as being sacked.

This summer I was walking through the park with my youngest son and we passed a heavily tattooed woman with a crewcut and half a ton of metal work on a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp. When she passed my son said she was a teacher at his school and she was "transitioning". When I was at school such a person would not have been allowed to teach. She would not have been regarded as someone who could be trusted to pass on the social norms required by the government of the day. Teachers have always been agents of the government.
 

It is well over half a century since I left school but by some freak of nature I still have children at school. I know what is going on in schools today. Teachers are commissars. They are instructing children on how they should think and behave in accordance with government guidelines. Any teacher who goes against the current woke zeitgeist is punished. For example, if they said a man cannot become a woman for obvious genetic reasons then they would be harassed and publicly humiliated. If a teacher today expressed the political and social views of an average person of my age they would probably be arrested as well as being sacked.

This summer I was walking through the park with my youngest son and we passed a heavily tattooed woman with a crewcut and half a ton of metal work on a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp. When she passed my son said she was a teacher at his school and she was "transitioning". When I was at school such a person would not have been allowed to teach. She would not have been regarded as someone who could be trusted to pass on the social norms required by the government of the day. Teachers have always been agents of the government.
 

It is well over half a century since I left school but by some freak of nature I still have children at school. I know what is going on in schools today. Teachers are commissars. They are instructing children on how they should think and behave in accordance with government guidelines. Any teacher who goes against the current woke zeitgeist is punished. For example, if they said a man cannot become a woman for obvious genetic reasons then they would be harassed and publicly humiliated. If a teacher today expressed the political and social views of an average person of my age they would probably be arrested as well as being sacked.

This summer I was walking through the park with my youngest son and we passed a heavily tattooed woman with a crewcut and half a ton of metal work on a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp. When she passed my son said she was a teacher at his school and she was "transitioning". When I was at school such a person would not have been allowed to teach. She would not have been regarded as someone who could be trusted to pass on the social norms required by the government of the day. Teachers have always been agents of the government.
 

All sensible parents must know by now that our government has been lying to them all their lives. If you don't expect them to tell the truth why would you trust our government or their agents (teachers) to be able to tell your children what is right and wrong.
It is up to the parents to pass on moral standards and the traditions you want your children to keep.  If the schools are brainwashing your children with nonsense you need to teach your children about cults and deprogramme them.
If you accept all this nonsense yourself then there is no hope for you or your children.

All sensible parents must know by now that our government has been lying to them all their lives. If you don't expect them to tell the truth why would you trust our government or their agents (teachers) to be able to tell your children what is right and wrong.
It is up to the parents to pass on moral standards and the traditions you want your children to keep.  If the schools are brainwashing your children with nonsense you need to teach your children about cults and deprogramme them.
If you accept all this nonsense yourself then there is no hope for you or your children.