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Posts posted by Alph
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9 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:
The funny thing about your examples of the supposed warmongers in chief is that plenty of them weren't started by the United States and/or were protective military actions of civilians. None of these were aggressive wars of territorial expansion like the one we're seeing currently.
There's nothing funny about countless dead civilians and destroyed infrastructure.
I'm not going to argue with you any further though. If you are in the minority over Iraq then it would be like arguing with someone directly from the Whitehouse
Rome built an empire on defending the innocent, defending allies and placing pro Roman governments. I've seen how Israel has grown in size by defending itself. Funding and supporting proxy wars to avoid direct military intervention isn't a new strategy either
We won't agree on it and we will just end up derailing the thread in petty arguing so I'll try to keep it about Ukraine from now on
Because Putin claims to there defensively. Missiles on his doorstep, military installations on his doorstep, attacks on the independence of DPR and LPR. The defence of Crimea. And none of it justifies this war. I don't how it justifies shelling Ukrainian cities. That's something I'm sure we can agree on and is the point of the thread. It shouldnt be "what about them!"
Putin talks like he's at war with America and The West. But it's not Americans or Westerners (yet) being killed. It's "little Russia". Can't make sense of it.
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This is the first season in like 30 years though that people remembered Everton.
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1 hour ago, David said:
Just don’t link this topic on your visa application ?
The Mrs warned me
"Don't you dare start on one of your Palestine, anti America rants. You're a right knob head when you start and if you get arrested then I won't call a solicitor until its time to go home"
More oppression imo but I'd rather fight Putin
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I do feel a bit like posting pictures some of the thousands of drone strikes worth of damage done by America.
Of all the orphans, the homeless, the dead civilians caused by America.
Of the human side to Napalm strikes and atomic bombs.
But as @Stive Pesleyquite rightly points out.. to do that basically can only be taken as feck Ukraine it's about time The East fought back.
But at the same time nobody gives a feck.
Palestinians getting slaughtered? Famine in Afghanistan? Iraq towns looking like a an apocalypse movie? That just happens. Thats what those crazy Muslims do, they blow stuff up. They love a good war over in the Middle East.
When is a good time to bring up the nation sitting at the top of the Warmonger leaderboard? Now is insensitive but it feels like nobody engages with it unless there's a situation like this.
Korean War, Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, Gulf War, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and then we talk about their support of rebellions and such. The support of Israel.
How many civilians have died under their aggressive military campaigns. Some of these military operations make sense and others not so much. But we don't put it under microscope like we are Ukraine. We don't tell the human side of these conflicts.
Some of them are glorified in Hollywood!! Let's not even pretend domestically America is bliss. The racial tensions, the extreme wealth and poverty, the health care, the gun crime... it's rich to be playing world police.
So frustrating. But yeah... doesn't make Putin anything like right.
I'm going to America in May ?
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For all the condemnation there's also a lot of companies and politicians making noise but when you look at what some of them are actually doing it's a lot of "suspended for now" and you've got 3 months to move your money. We'll take a yacht off you. For now. We want to help Ukranian people.... but only until its really inconvenient.
I understand why. Just an observation.
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I don't think Putin was pushed into the conflict. And that's even considering what he is, where he comes from, Russian paranoia, the way Russia values individual lives, their patriotic attitude etc etc.
It's very different mentality in Russia of course. It's a fantastic and bizarre nation.
The conflict was an opportunity more than anything. There were so many reasons to invade here and now. To wait may be too late and Ukraine could become The West.
But there appear to be even those in the Kremlin that thought diplomacy hadn't been exhausted.
Had different leaders been in charge in the West and/or Brexit and Covid hadn't have happened then I don't think this war happens. The most he would perhaps have done is try to free Donbass republics with a "special military operation".
The full scale invasion to the this extent is simply that he has an opportunity to win Ukraine and The West can only watch on
But I definitely think this was supposed to be done and dusted by now and a pro Russian government in charge along with surrender terms entirely in favour of Russia.
- Tamworthram and Highgate
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18 minutes ago, Highgate said:
True.....and they were never in danger of being brought to justice either. Just like Putin won't be.
Yep. I'm not sure to be honest what happens when you become a war criminal. I think it's just like a blue tick on twitter. It's just a tag.
Kadyrov is also a war criminal.
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I don't know if the whole war is a crime but Blair and Bush didn't seem to suffer and their reasons for war lacked any sufficient evidence
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On 04/03/2022 at 14:54, David said:
Nothing wrong in having an opinion on cannabis, many would share the view it should be legal, but as it's not, those are the rules.
Would make a lot of sense to make it legal, create jobs with growth and distribution, generate tax money.
The argument I guess would be is it a gateway drug and would we have a lazy population with the munchies.
And it stinks
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31 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:
Interesting read. Do you have a link to the Minsk agreement? I can’t see any mention of Ukraine agreeing not to join NATO and certainly not the EU. I also can’t find anything about the whole of the Ukraine being deemed a demilitarised area as part of the agreement.
I read this the other day. Looks like it's barely worth the paper it's written on since it's left so much open to interpretation.
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5 minutes ago, Norman said:
Nobody knows Putin's plans but himself and a select few generals. This is the bloke who didn't tell his own security counsel his plans to invade.
The Russian army has sent in special forces and paratroopers. They have also sent in their 'proper army', it's just full of one-year conscripts. This happens when you have such a large army that has grown so quickly. Naturally a huge amount are incompetent. Add in that some thought they were training in Belarus, some thought they were peace-keeping like they do in Moldova, and it is set up to be a failure.
There are enough pictures showing Russian vehicles abandoned. Their supply lines were set up for a few days, not over a week. Not enough food, not enough fuel.
There is no conspiracy. Putin thought the Ukrainian government would flee, and they would roll in and set up a puppet parliament and have a military presence in Ukraine as peace-keepers as well as taking back the disputed areas.
The opposite happened, they weren't prepared, the supply lines weren't there. They panicked and sent in cargo planes carrying hundreds of paratroopers to land at an airport they hadn't secured. They got killed. The Russian army is incompetent.
The Russian economy is tanking. There isn't a clever plan.
I think this sounds more likely. This was all supposed to be over now with Ukranian leadership running for the hills.
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38 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:
I don't understand why the convoy hasn't been attacked more. The question was asked to a "military expert" and he answered that maybe Ukraine want to save their defences for the next phase of Russian attack and are fearful of using their limited air support.
But surely this is the best chance they'll get?
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If they want evidence of war crimes then just be patient. These guys will give you all the evidence you need. Things could get worse, which is hard to imagine
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3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:
On the point of sanctions
When you think about the fact that the west is addicted to cheap consumer goods from China, and China buys most of it's energy from Russia - we're somewhat undermining our own sanctions - as long as Russia continues to sell gas to China, and China pay for it with the money they make from trading with the west
Apparently already doing this with wheat(?)
So I read from Russian news. China to lift sanctions on wheat industry.
Like Baalocks said, Putin has been in power so long that he's had many years to prepare for this. I don't see the stranglehold being all that.
I think its more about trying to put him under pressure domestically because Russia will survive as it has had to before
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1 hour ago, Wolfie said:
Copied from Beeb live feed:
President Putin has warned those opposing Russia's actions in Ukraine "not to exacerbate the situation" by imposing more restrictions on his country.
The Russian president was speaking at a government meeting broadcast on the state-controlled Rossiya 24 news channel.
"We have no ill intentions against our neighbours," Putin claims.
And he says his government sees "no need" for its neighbours to take further action that will "make our relations worse".
"I think everyone must think about how to normalise relations, co-operate normally and develop relations normally," he adds.
It comes as foreign ministers from across the West gather in Brussels to consider how to maintain pressure on Russia.
Putin also repeats his previous claim that all action taken by the Russian military so far has been made "exclusively in response to some unfriendly actions against the Russian Federation".
Maybe it's me being overly optimistic, or because this topic has been giving my mental health a battering this week but that does come across as a lot less inflamatory than previous statements. Even if you can't trust a word he says. Hearing him saying he wants to get back to normal relations is slightly more re-assuring than talking about nukes on high alert.
*goes away to find some more straws to clutch at*
Moscow were pretty quick to open ceasefire talks. They made 2 offers that were rejected what seems like forever ago now.
Think they misjudged Zelensky and Ukraine's determination to remain independent. Probably thinks many more people fantasise about the Soviet Union like him?
Now he has to continue. How can he stop unless he at least achieves Donetsk and Luhansk being recognised republics and Crimea being Russian territory? I'm not sure what the best Zelensky can hope for.
Exile?
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4 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:
It will have to come from within Russia. Nobody is going on the offensive against Russia any time soon and Putin is savvy enough to know where the big red line is on that front with his own aggression. He knows he can get away with it in Ukraine and NATO can only stand on the Polish border and shout very loudly about it all unless they fancy a massive war.
Every dictator has a shelf life and when their usefulness is diminished in the eyes of their closest 'allies' then it only typically ends one way.
None of that of course helps Ukraine in the short term.
Ukraine was promised protection by the West and Russia when it gave up it's Nuclear weapons.
Now one invades them while the other watches.
What will it even be like in the years to come. A buffer state? People that remember the West didn't come? People that live in fear of Russia coming to claim it? A country demilitarised to suit everyone and sat as the West/East buffer?
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13 minutes ago, TexasRam said:
No need to wonder, its Mad men in charge that’s how we end up in these Wars, that’s the top and bottom of it
Agreed. But they aren't all in the east. Which is why I think it's interesting to draw comparisons.
I think we play world police too much.
But I agree, Putin is acting like a barbarian and there are those close to him that seem more reluctant than him to "liberate" Russians in Ukraine.
Hopefully they do something about it before time runs out for Ukraine because he isn't going to stop until he's achieved his goals. Because nobody can stop him
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13 minutes ago, TexasRam said:
Ah It’s always the West fault ?
Nope. Nobody to blame here but Putin.
Ukranian blood on his hands
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5 minutes ago, Norman said:
Because no matter how you deal with Putin, he will always want more.
You go on about the justifications or reasoning behind Putin's decisions - and that the West have done similar or worse.
But none of that matters when you're dealing with someone who kills and tortures people because they share a different perspective to himself. So yeah, that's how you end up in wars.
I agree Putin will always want more.
I'm dead against that. As I am against Western constant interference and war mongering.
I'm only using Putin's unjustified aggression to kind of hold a mirror up and say look, not so different.
But we do ours in war torn Middle East where it belongs it seems (see Trevor Noah clip)
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"Not interested in perspectives"
Wonder how we end up in these wars
The Ukraine War
in The Jim Smith Room
Posted · Edited by Alpha
Yeah, I agree. I did twist it a little to try to illustrate the irony in a humanitarian military operation can to lead to many civilians deaths in America's intervention.
That was a bit of a dick move by me
But anyway, Ukraine..