BaaLocks

Me and @Mrs Conehave spoken about it and we’d take a teenage lad ideally but we can fit a youngster in.

I've been telling my wife for 20 years that the football finishes at 5:15 just so I can grab a pint in the pub afterwards. Same logic.

Yeah, I read that, he works for Quantuma now I believe.

I saw this too - it was reported in the usual click-baity places eg
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/uk-world-news/vladimir-putin-cancer-according-ex-6761894
I particularly liked this bit
Because before now - we all new Vladimir "Chuckles" Putin was the life and soul of the Kremlin - always there with a cheeky jape - whoopee cushions, fart spray the lot.

That's Comrade Baalocks to you. To the other point on Facism, it feels a bit like Godwin's Law to me though I do agree that extreme right wing and extreme left wing often hit each other coming in the other direction.

That's because @GboroRam gets to all my drunken rants before you I guess ?

That's because @GboroRam gets to all my drunken rants before you I guess ?

That's because @GboroRam gets to all my drunken rants before you I guess ?

That's because @GboroRam gets to all my drunken rants before you I guess ?

Personally I find your posts very balanced and informative, there seems no easy answer to sorting this mess out with the least bloodshed possible but ffs we as ordinary people really need to be getting on top of our politicians and large corporates to try to stop this stuff just keep running on repeat , I thinks that’s happening to a degree as the open eyes on Blair showed and continues to show but that only happens if we continue to be able to speak openly without fear of being labelled as uncaring or on one side or the other??‍♂️

Not quite sure you got my point, or maybe I didn't explain it as I intended. What I was saying is that the Tory leadership are seriously compromised by light of having been wiling to take funding from those that now are the very people they are expected to rail against. I won't post here as it takes us a bit off thread but it's up on the Internet if you want to go look for it - links between Gavin Williamson's knighthood, the Russia report, Lord Lebedev. And not some crackpot 18 year old conspiracy theorist but trusted and respected journalists like Carol Cawalladr and transcripts of statements given under oath. It's there if you want to go looking for it - which is a point in itself.
There is much in the actions of Ukraine in the past few months that Russia will have seen as aggressive - breaking the Minsk agreement, banning the speaking of Russian, turning a blind eye to routine torture of Russian citizens living in Ukraine. Russia was clear, go down this path and there will be consequences, Zelensky chose to ignore that and the promised consequences came in exactly the manner predicted. Russian forces were on the Ukranian border for more than a month before they invaded, on every single one of those days Zelensky could have reversed decisions seen as aggressive - decisions he had previously agreed to. And no, no suggestion they brought this on themselves, just that there were opportunities before we got here to resolve it.
So it is wrong what is happening but take the analogy of the bloke in the pub getting pushed and nudged continually by some other punter - he says "do that again and I'm going to thump you" and guess what, he not only does it again but he also tips his drink over the bloke's head (extend the analogy, maybe because he thinks he's got some big mates who will step in if it kicks off). The bloke says "one more time and I'm going to thump you" and he does and the bloke thumps him. The bloke gets the criminal charge, he was in the wrong but he does not mean the other side's protestations of "he just hit me for no reason" don't really hold water for those prepared to understand.
That is all I am saying, it's beyond the view of me, or anyone on here, whether or not it is right of Russia to make the requests they have but it is also clear that just framing it from one view will not help us resolve it.
P.S. Putin is a dictator, a bully and guilty of war crimes as we stand. He is not a Fascist, by any (recognised) definition. I'm not his defence lawyer but it weakens arguments when errors like that are within them.
But (in general) I'm posting less on here the last few days, and in general, because it is thoroughly exhausting being taken to task by people (not you personally) who think they now have the in depth knowledge of the region to clearly call out exactly what is going on, what needs to be done and (black and white) who are the right 'uns and who are the wrong 'uns. And also to try and recognise the tone of discussion, the level of bombast, the total inability to listen (at all levels, including the most senior politicians) to the views of others, if only to try and advance a conclusion.
I'd pretty much guarantee that if I gave the average soapbox expert five questions on Ukraine (what religion are they, name five cities, who was the President before Zelensky, what did the country look like before Communism, what is the population) they'd struggle to get three right. It's not to say I am some big know it all, but ask me to comment on why Derby beat Chelsea in 1968 I won't be able to tell you as I wasn't there and don't know. Yet today we all (myself included) seem to think that three Twitter feeds and ten minutes watching Dan and Sally on the sofa is enough to make me an expert.

Not quite sure you got my point, or maybe I didn't explain it as I intended. What I was saying is that the Tory leadership are seriously compromised by light of having been wiling to take funding from those that now are the very people they are expected to rail against. I won't post here as it takes us a bit off thread but it's up on the Internet if you want to go look for it - links between Gavin Williamson's knighthood, the Russia report, Lord Lebedev. And not some crackpot 18 year old conspiracy theorist but trusted and respected journalists like Carol Cawalladr and transcripts of statements given under oath. It's there if you want to go looking for it - which is a point in itself.
There is much in the actions of Ukraine in the past few months that Russia will have seen as aggressive - breaking the Minsk agreement, banning the speaking of Russian, turning a blind eye to routine torture of Russian citizens living in Ukraine. Russia was clear, go down this path and there will be consequences, Zelensky chose to ignore that and the promised consequences came in exactly the manner predicted. Russian forces were on the Ukranian border for more than a month before they invaded, on every single one of those days Zelensky could have reversed decisions seen as aggressive - decisions he had previously agreed to. And no, no suggestion they brought this on themselves, just that there were opportunities before we got here to resolve it.
So it is wrong what is happening but take the analogy of the bloke in the pub getting pushed and nudged continually by some other punter - he says "do that again and I'm going to thump you" and guess what, he not only does it again but he also tips his drink over the bloke's head (extend the analogy, maybe because he thinks he's got some big mates who will step in if it kicks off). The bloke says "one more time and I'm going to thump you" and he does and the bloke thumps him. The bloke gets the criminal charge, he was in the wrong but he does not mean the other side's protestations of "he just hit me for no reason" don't really hold water for those prepared to understand.
That is all I am saying, it's beyond the view of me, or anyone on here, whether or not it is right of Russia to make the requests they have but it is also clear that just framing it from one view will not help us resolve it.
P.S. Putin is a dictator, a bully and guilty of war crimes as we stand. He is not a Fascist, by any (recognised) definition. I'm not his defence lawyer but it weakens arguments when errors like that are within them.
But (in general) I'm posting less on here the last few days, and in general, because it is thoroughly exhausting being taken to task by people (not you personally) who think they now have the in depth knowledge of the region to clearly call out exactly what is going on, what needs to be done and (black and white) who are the right 'uns and who are the wrong 'uns. And also to try and recognise the tone of discussion, the level of bombast, the total inability to listen (at all levels, including the most senior politicians) to the views of others, if only to try and advance a conclusion.
I'd pretty much guarantee that if I gave the average soapbox expert five questions on Ukraine (what religion are they, name five cities, who was the President before Zelensky, what did the country look like before Communism, what is the population) they'd struggle to get three right. It's not to say I am some big know it all, but ask me to comment on why Derby beat Chelsea in 1968 I won't be able to tell you as I wasn't there and don't know. Yet today we all (myself included) seem to think that three Twitter feeds and ten minutes watching Dan and Sally on the sofa is enough to make me an expert.

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/
I stumbled across this interesting article by Bryce Green. It offers some insight into the conflict in Ukraine that you won't find in the mainstream media. I primarily wanted to share it because he reminds us about the time US officials were literally caught selecting the new power players in the Ukrainian government after they had waged a successful campaign of destabilisation against Yanukovych. The following recorded phone call is a discussion between US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt.
At this point we might as well just assume that any world conflict is the result of American deep state spooks meddling in the politics of other nations.

Bit of an update, just telling it as I am hearing it.
News in Russia is that they have no intent of taking Ukraine. The invasion is based around the point that Ukraine broke the Minsk agreement (the one where Ukraine agreed not to apply for NATO / EU membership) and have been compiling military stations in the past eight years. What Russia wants now is to take out those installations, reclaim Donetsk and Lugansk and show Ukraine what happens if they renege on agreements. What Putin wants to do is show what happens if you break agreements, then withdraw. There is nobody, repeat nobody, in Russia saying they have any interest in keeping Ukraine (yes, I know, two weeks ago they were saying they wouldn't invade - but it's hardly the 'rebuilding the Soviet Union / mad Hitler' style rant many would like to think is in place). And then, if they misbehave again (their words) he will come back and do the same again Most of the Russian troops sent in during the first wave are not the 'real' military. Best parallel is that they are the equivalent of Territorial Army. The convoy is waiting further instruction, Russia has been planning this for months - no way has it run out of fuel. Conspiracy theory is that Putin has done this to tank the Russian market. Apparently they are buying up all the shares in BP and western companies who are exiting Russia at rock bottom prices. There's always a winner eh! Mariupol has been targeted as it is the home if Idar / Azov battalion. Nope, don't expect you to have, but remember the story of the Russian citizens being rounded up in the county hall and burned alive in 2014? Well, that was led by the battalion based out of Mariupol, and Putin says repeatedly he is coming after them - to the named person. The post earlier about Kadyrov, the Chechen leader, is true. In Russia they refer to them as 'orcs' - they will fight to the extreme for whoever leads them and at this moment in history they are led by Putin (yup, strange eh, I can't keep up either) Remember, in the Minsk agreement signed in 2014 by all parties Ukraine agreed to being a demilitarised zone and not applying for membership of NATO. Putin believes that one, maybe both, of those terms have been closed. There might not be queues at ATMs as many suggest, but they are queuing up at Ikea before it closes to buy up their flat pack furniture. Dollars are quite hard to find at the moment (point about ten pages back that US currency will benefit from this). You don't know where she lives so I will just say it anyway, but my mother in law has $10k stashed under her mattress for a rainy day. As do most Russians, they remember the 1990s. Final point, story is that Putin dropped out of the public eye in 2019 because he had bowel cancer (I personally think he went for a face lift) and the time along, C-19 and other points is what has sent him acutely paranoid. It's the logic behind all the long tables, apparently if you shake his hand now (weeks prior to this) you need to self isolate to prove you are not carrying anything. Yes, as I have said elsewhere, he is certainly not quite the level leader he might have been (he was, no debate - you might not like the definition of level but we can agree it was level) for the first two decades or so. Couple of other points of interest
As of tonight, Apple Pay still works in Russia. I won't go baiting the biggest Apple fan on the forum over that point but it is. The blocking of international flights is a major issue for airlines. As we all know, airlines don't buy planes, they lease them. Well, once the block was put in place there are still a load of planes stuck in Russia for AirFrance, Lufthansa, BA. Russians are saying they have no responsibility for them and the plane makers (Boeing, Airbus) want to know when they are getting their planes back. And if you think we are better at all of this - oops, bit of politics coming up - just have a look at Carol Cadwallader's Twitter feed tonight. Some might call it BSC (bat and crazy, you've got the other word) but she is posting statements she made under oath in her counrt battle with Aaron Banks showing how Gavin Williamson was the link to the Russian funding that drove Brexit - no, I'm not opening that one up here but I am just saying this has potential to explode a lot closer to home than we might realise. And if you want a clue, VfB the Russian bank has been frozen in all other countries. In the UK they have been given 30 days to exit. Sorry, I almost forgot to mention, the head of VfB in the UK is a Tory party donor. But, anyway, that's for another day. Ah, sorry, that's Sir Gavin Williamson - I do apolgise. Not for discussion, just for your persual. It is what it is.

Bit of an update, just telling it as I am hearing it.
News in Russia is that they have no intent of taking Ukraine. The invasion is based around the point that Ukraine broke the Minsk agreement (the one where Ukraine agreed not to apply for NATO / EU membership) and have been compiling military stations in the past eight years. What Russia wants now is to take out those installations, reclaim Donetsk and Lugansk and show Ukraine what happens if they renege on agreements. What Putin wants to do is show what happens if you break agreements, then withdraw. There is nobody, repeat nobody, in Russia saying they have any interest in keeping Ukraine (yes, I know, two weeks ago they were saying they wouldn't invade - but it's hardly the 'rebuilding the Soviet Union / mad Hitler' style rant many would like to think is in place). And then, if they misbehave again (their words) he will come back and do the same again Most of the Russian troops sent in during the first wave are not the 'real' military. Best parallel is that they are the equivalent of Territorial Army. The convoy is waiting further instruction, Russia has been planning this for months - no way has it run out of fuel. Conspiracy theory is that Putin has done this to tank the Russian market. Apparently they are buying up all the shares in BP and western companies who are exiting Russia at rock bottom prices. There's always a winner eh! Mariupol has been targeted as it is the home if Idar / Azov battalion. Nope, don't expect you to have, but remember the story of the Russian citizens being rounded up in the county hall and burned alive in 2014? Well, that was led by the battalion based out of Mariupol, and Putin says repeatedly he is coming after them - to the named person. The post earlier about Kadyrov, the Chechen leader, is true. In Russia they refer to them as 'orcs' - they will fight to the extreme for whoever leads them and at this moment in history they are led by Putin (yup, strange eh, I can't keep up either) Remember, in the Minsk agreement signed in 2014 by all parties Ukraine agreed to being a demilitarised zone and not applying for membership of NATO. Putin believes that one, maybe both, of those terms have been closed. There might not be queues at ATMs as many suggest, but they are queuing up at Ikea before it closes to buy up their flat pack furniture. Dollars are quite hard to find at the moment (point about ten pages back that US currency will benefit from this). You don't know where she lives so I will just say it anyway, but my mother in law has $10k stashed under her mattress for a rainy day. As do most Russians, they remember the 1990s. Final point, story is that Putin dropped out of the public eye in 2019 because he had bowel cancer (I personally think he went for a face lift) and the time along, C-19 and other points is what has sent him acutely paranoid. It's the logic behind all the long tables, apparently if you shake his hand now (weeks prior to this) you need to self isolate to prove you are not carrying anything. Yes, as I have said elsewhere, he is certainly not quite the level leader he might have been (he was, no debate - you might not like the definition of level but we can agree it was level) for the first two decades or so. Couple of other points of interest
As of tonight, Apple Pay still works in Russia. I won't go baiting the biggest Apple fan on the forum over that point but it is. The blocking of international flights is a major issue for airlines. As we all know, airlines don't buy planes, they lease them. Well, once the block was put in place there are still a load of planes stuck in Russia for AirFrance, Lufthansa, BA. Russians are saying they have no responsibility for them and the plane makers (Boeing, Airbus) want to know when they are getting their planes back. And if you think we are better at all of this - oops, bit of politics coming up - just have a look at Carol Cadwallader's Twitter feed tonight. Some might call it BSC (bat and crazy, you've got the other word) but she is posting statements she made under oath in her counrt battle with Aaron Banks showing how Gavin Williamson was the link to the Russian funding that drove Brexit - no, I'm not opening that one up here but I am just saying this has potential to explode a lot closer to home than we might realise. And if you want a clue, VfB the Russian bank has been frozen in all other countries. In the UK they have been given 30 days to exit. Sorry, I almost forgot to mention, the head of VfB in the UK is a Tory party donor. But, anyway, that's for another day. Ah, sorry, that's Sir Gavin Williamson - I do apolgise. Not for discussion, just for your persual. It is what it is.

Bit of an update, just telling it as I am hearing it.
News in Russia is that they have no intent of taking Ukraine. The invasion is based around the point that Ukraine broke the Minsk agreement (the one where Ukraine agreed not to apply for NATO / EU membership) and have been compiling military stations in the past eight years. What Russia wants now is to take out those installations, reclaim Donetsk and Lugansk and show Ukraine what happens if they renege on agreements. What Putin wants to do is show what happens if you break agreements, then withdraw. There is nobody, repeat nobody, in Russia saying they have any interest in keeping Ukraine (yes, I know, two weeks ago they were saying they wouldn't invade - but it's hardly the 'rebuilding the Soviet Union / mad Hitler' style rant many would like to think is in place). And then, if they misbehave again (their words) he will come back and do the same again Most of the Russian troops sent in during the first wave are not the 'real' military. Best parallel is that they are the equivalent of Territorial Army. The convoy is waiting further instruction, Russia has been planning this for months - no way has it run out of fuel. Conspiracy theory is that Putin has done this to tank the Russian market. Apparently they are buying up all the shares in BP and western companies who are exiting Russia at rock bottom prices. There's always a winner eh! Mariupol has been targeted as it is the home if Idar / Azov battalion. Nope, don't expect you to have, but remember the story of the Russian citizens being rounded up in the county hall and burned alive in 2014? Well, that was led by the battalion based out of Mariupol, and Putin says repeatedly he is coming after them - to the named person. The post earlier about Kadyrov, the Chechen leader, is true. In Russia they refer to them as 'orcs' - they will fight to the extreme for whoever leads them and at this moment in history they are led by Putin (yup, strange eh, I can't keep up either) Remember, in the Minsk agreement signed in 2014 by all parties Ukraine agreed to being a demilitarised zone and not applying for membership of NATO. Putin believes that one, maybe both, of those terms have been closed. There might not be queues at ATMs as many suggest, but they are queuing up at Ikea before it closes to buy up their flat pack furniture. Dollars are quite hard to find at the moment (point about ten pages back that US currency will benefit from this). You don't know where she lives so I will just say it anyway, but my mother in law has $10k stashed under her mattress for a rainy day. As do most Russians, they remember the 1990s. Final point, story is that Putin dropped out of the public eye in 2019 because he had bowel cancer (I personally think he went for a face lift) and the time along, C-19 and other points is what has sent him acutely paranoid. It's the logic behind all the long tables, apparently if you shake his hand now (weeks prior to this) you need to self isolate to prove you are not carrying anything. Yes, as I have said elsewhere, he is certainly not quite the level leader he might have been (he was, no debate - you might not like the definition of level but we can agree it was level) for the first two decades or so. Couple of other points of interest
As of tonight, Apple Pay still works in Russia. I won't go baiting the biggest Apple fan on the forum over that point but it is. The blocking of international flights is a major issue for airlines. As we all know, airlines don't buy planes, they lease them. Well, once the block was put in place there are still a load of planes stuck in Russia for AirFrance, Lufthansa, BA. Russians are saying they have no responsibility for them and the plane makers (Boeing, Airbus) want to know when they are getting their planes back. And if you think we are better at all of this - oops, bit of politics coming up - just have a look at Carol Cadwallader's Twitter feed tonight. Some might call it BSC (bat and crazy, you've got the other word) but she is posting statements she made under oath in her counrt battle with Aaron Banks showing how Gavin Williamson was the link to the Russian funding that drove Brexit - no, I'm not opening that one up here but I am just saying this has potential to explode a lot closer to home than we might realise. And if you want a clue, VfB the Russian bank has been frozen in all other countries. In the UK they have been given 30 days to exit. Sorry, I almost forgot to mention, the head of VfB in the UK is a Tory party donor. But, anyway, that's for another day. Ah, sorry, that's Sir Gavin Williamson - I do apolgise. Not for discussion, just for your persual. It is what it is.

Bit of an update, just telling it as I am hearing it.
News in Russia is that they have no intent of taking Ukraine. The invasion is based around the point that Ukraine broke the Minsk agreement (the one where Ukraine agreed not to apply for NATO / EU membership) and have been compiling military stations in the past eight years. What Russia wants now is to take out those installations, reclaim Donetsk and Lugansk and show Ukraine what happens if they renege on agreements. What Putin wants to do is show what happens if you break agreements, then withdraw. There is nobody, repeat nobody, in Russia saying they have any interest in keeping Ukraine (yes, I know, two weeks ago they were saying they wouldn't invade - but it's hardly the 'rebuilding the Soviet Union / mad Hitler' style rant many would like to think is in place). And then, if they misbehave again (their words) he will come back and do the same again Most of the Russian troops sent in during the first wave are not the 'real' military. Best parallel is that they are the equivalent of Territorial Army. The convoy is waiting further instruction, Russia has been planning this for months - no way has it run out of fuel. Conspiracy theory is that Putin has done this to tank the Russian market. Apparently they are buying up all the shares in BP and western companies who are exiting Russia at rock bottom prices. There's always a winner eh! Mariupol has been targeted as it is the home if Idar / Azov battalion. Nope, don't expect you to have, but remember the story of the Russian citizens being rounded up in the county hall and burned alive in 2014? Well, that was led by the battalion based out of Mariupol, and Putin says repeatedly he is coming after them - to the named person. The post earlier about Kadyrov, the Chechen leader, is true. In Russia they refer to them as 'orcs' - they will fight to the extreme for whoever leads them and at this moment in history they are led by Putin (yup, strange eh, I can't keep up either) Remember, in the Minsk agreement signed in 2014 by all parties Ukraine agreed to being a demilitarised zone and not applying for membership of NATO. Putin believes that one, maybe both, of those terms have been closed. There might not be queues at ATMs as many suggest, but they are queuing up at Ikea before it closes to buy up their flat pack furniture. Dollars are quite hard to find at the moment (point about ten pages back that US currency will benefit from this). You don't know where she lives so I will just say it anyway, but my mother in law has $10k stashed under her mattress for a rainy day. As do most Russians, they remember the 1990s. Final point, story is that Putin dropped out of the public eye in 2019 because he had bowel cancer (I personally think he went for a face lift) and the time along, C-19 and other points is what has sent him acutely paranoid. It's the logic behind all the long tables, apparently if you shake his hand now (weeks prior to this) you need to self isolate to prove you are not carrying anything. Yes, as I have said elsewhere, he is certainly not quite the level leader he might have been (he was, no debate - you might not like the definition of level but we can agree it was level) for the first two decades or so. Couple of other points of interest
As of tonight, Apple Pay still works in Russia. I won't go baiting the biggest Apple fan on the forum over that point but it is. The blocking of international flights is a major issue for airlines. As we all know, airlines don't buy planes, they lease them. Well, once the block was put in place there are still a load of planes stuck in Russia for AirFrance, Lufthansa, BA. Russians are saying they have no responsibility for them and the plane makers (Boeing, Airbus) want to know when they are getting their planes back. And if you think we are better at all of this - oops, bit of politics coming up - just have a look at Carol Cadwallader's Twitter feed tonight. Some might call it BSC (bat and crazy, you've got the other word) but she is posting statements she made under oath in her counrt battle with Aaron Banks showing how Gavin Williamson was the link to the Russian funding that drove Brexit - no, I'm not opening that one up here but I am just saying this has potential to explode a lot closer to home than we might realise. And if you want a clue, VfB the Russian bank has been frozen in all other countries. In the UK they have been given 30 days to exit. Sorry, I almost forgot to mention, the head of VfB in the UK is a Tory party donor. But, anyway, that's for another day. Ah, sorry, that's Sir Gavin Williamson - I do apolgise. Not for discussion, just for your persual. It is what it is.

To that point, I'm going to step back on this thread now. I'm getting to the point where I'm feeling I'm just repeating myself and for those who want to know a bit about how we got here it's in the previous 26 pages - if you don't then ignorance is bliss and I'd suggest go listen to Liz Truss for a big dollop of that.
I'm not saying I'm quitting the thread, but I don't think I'm helping anyone too much if it's just me responding on the same points again and again. To @Davids point, sensitive times and there are likely people reading this thread who have relatives in one country or the other. Looking forward to sharing news of relief when this has all hopefully been concluded with limited further suffering. 

Got told a great story about him by Dean Jones (also RIP).
Geoff Boycott was batting in Australia and came out to bat wearing glasses, all the Aussies were laughing and Rod Marsh said "Hey Geoff, what you got those on for?" and Boycott replied "What are they for? Listening, you daft Aussie t$%t". Two ball later Boycott is clean bowled and Marsh shouts "well you didn't hear that one, did you Geoffrey?"

To that point, I'm going to step back on this thread now. I'm getting to the point where I'm feeling I'm just repeating myself and for those who want to know a bit about how we got here it's in the previous 26 pages - if you don't then ignorance is bliss and I'd suggest go listen to Liz Truss for a big dollop of that.
I'm not saying I'm quitting the thread, but I don't think I'm helping anyone too much if it's just me responding on the same points again and again. To @Davids point, sensitive times and there are likely people reading this thread who have relatives in one country or the other. Looking forward to sharing news of relief when this has all hopefully been concluded with limited further suffering. 

To that point, I'm going to step back on this thread now. I'm getting to the point where I'm feeling I'm just repeating myself and for those who want to know a bit about how we got here it's in the previous 26 pages - if you don't then ignorance is bliss and I'd suggest go listen to Liz Truss for a big dollop of that.
I'm not saying I'm quitting the thread, but I don't think I'm helping anyone too much if it's just me responding on the same points again and again. To @Davids point, sensitive times and there are likely people reading this thread who have relatives in one country or the other. Looking forward to sharing news of relief when this has all hopefully been concluded with limited further suffering. 

I understand the difference perfectly well. It's "humanitarian intervention" when we do it, territorial expansion for anyone else.

This is the thing though. People going on that he's evil etc... what do they propose? Nato intervention? 
The odd poster pops on to berate anyone "justifying" the war. 
OK, he's an evil Hitler. Now what? What do they think you can do from there?
So let's go down the route of trying to understand the man
"You're justifying him killing civilians!!!".... yeah, we all love Ukranian kids being killed. I know it's top of my search history. 
There has to be some understanding of the situation or Nato intervention to stop a tyrant. Where do that lead
Putin's invasion of Ukraine isn't a random spot on the map. He knows that he can put forward claims on East Ukraine and Crimea and use that to justify his invasion while we can do nothing. Any criticism he can bat back as hypocrites and mention several similar situations. He's selling it as a defensive war. 
Eddie has suggested 3 times now that people are defending him. They're not. They're understanding his angle
And if The West refuses to understand his view of the world then we will continue down the path of war with Putin and possibly future Russian leaders. 
Rightly or wrongly you can call him evil. But God isn't going to strike him down. So what alternative is there to listening to him? WW3? A Nuclear war?
He won't stop in Ukraine until he has achieved his goals or lost power. 

It shouldn't be happening anywhere in the world, why is it more alarming because it is happening in Europe? The attached explains it better than I ever could.
 

It's good to see a fair scattering of people trying to apply some sense from the Russian perspective. 
I think if you paint Putin as this satanic figure who's relentless drive to rebuild the Soviet Union is the reason he's killing his Slavic brothers... then what do you propose. There's no dealing with him except fight fire with fire
Trying to understand him and then there's a point of negotiation. And I think that's what's made this thread such a good civilised debate. In that those who are dead set against Putin have been willing to listen to those who (aren't with Putin) are sympathetic towards his vision for Russia and Russian people. Even if they don't agree its good that people have listened to @BaaLocks and at least thought past the "Hitler is back" angle. 
I don't know how much trouble this thread has caused the mods. I hope not too much
Because between the hysterical West media and the State line Russian media there's surely a logical right answer. And I think there are conversations being had that a realistic, logical and recognise failures on both sides to allow such a war to happen. This little corner of the Internet certainly makes more sense than Liz Truss.