Eatonram

If there is ever any chink of light at the end of the tunnel, RipleyRich and Atherstone can be depended on to provide the blackout curtains.

Particularly as they only "own" Grealish till the end of his contract when he can walk away if he wishes.

Yes, but buying out of administration, in effect "clears" the debt...that is why the punishments are so harsh and other Clubs hate it. The basics (as far as we are led to believe) are that £30m would buy Derby County with the £30m going to creditors at different rates. The buyer at that price could even "own" the stadium but with a £20m "mortgage". Do you think all the Clubs who have built stadiums in the last 30 years have paid up front or had a loan/mortgage? That is the position any new buyer would be in. I stand by the view that it would still be a good deal BUT I have to acknowledge that the obvious lack of a willing buyer could mean I am totally wrong.

Exactly, so get on with it Efl/ quantuma start selling season tickets .. with a health warning if necessary as the club is in admin and may go pop. But some of us me included are willing to take the risk. 

Particularly as they only "own" Grealish till the end of his contract when he can walk away if he wishes.

Derby are one of the biggest clubs outside of the Premiership, ground, training facilities, fans, season ticket holders etc. To get that for half it cost Man City to buy Jack Grealish still seems a bargain to me….

Because most of this seasons Season Ticket revenue was used the previous year during Covid....mine for example was "free" because I had paid for the 20/21 season but could never attend. This year we could reasonably sell 15k season tickets and get the full revenue.

Yes, but buying out of administration, in effect "clears" the debt...that is why the punishments are so harsh and other Clubs hate it. The basics (as far as we are led to believe) are that £30m would buy Derby County with the £30m going to creditors at different rates. The buyer at that price could even "own" the stadium but with a £20m "mortgage". Do you think all the Clubs who have built stadiums in the last 30 years have paid up front or had a loan/mortgage? That is the position any new buyer would be in. I stand by the view that it would still be a good deal BUT I have to acknowledge that the obvious lack of a willing buyer could mean I am totally wrong.

Yes, but buying out of administration, in effect "clears" the debt...that is why the punishments are so harsh and other Clubs hate it. The basics (as far as we are led to believe) are that £30m would buy Derby County with the £30m going to creditors at different rates. The buyer at that price could even "own" the stadium but with a £20m "mortgage". Do you think all the Clubs who have built stadiums in the last 30 years have paid up front or had a loan/mortgage? That is the position any new buyer would be in. I stand by the view that it would still be a good deal BUT I have to acknowledge that the obvious lack of a willing buyer could mean I am totally wrong.

Yes, but buying out of administration, in effect "clears" the debt...that is why the punishments are so harsh and other Clubs hate it. The basics (as far as we are led to believe) are that £30m would buy Derby County with the £30m going to creditors at different rates. The buyer at that price could even "own" the stadium but with a £20m "mortgage". Do you think all the Clubs who have built stadiums in the last 30 years have paid up front or had a loan/mortgage? That is the position any new buyer would be in. I stand by the view that it would still be a good deal BUT I have to acknowledge that the obvious lack of a willing buyer could mean I am totally wrong.

I sort of agree and (as a fan) wonder why we are such an unattractive proposition for a buyer. Outside of the prem we are one of a small number of clubs capable of generating a sufficient yearly income to cover the majority if not all of our expenditure. Throw in a good season with the possibility of success and the support will remain as solid as ever (even in L1).
But I am a fan and not a buyer, and I understand that in business you try tp get the lowest price possible....but it still baffles me why Q are struggling to sell the Club and that we may "disappear" as a result.

If the EFL is withholding £7m, and that season tickets/attendance would likely raise a similar amount, well that covers half of what the supposed bid has been from Appleby/Kirchner/Ashley/Binnie Family, and that the club will likely be run on a shoestring budget for the foreseeable. Throw in a stadium realistically valued at £30m+ available at a knocked down price, it's not as big a gamble as some make it out to be, especially if Morris can be persuaded to chip in a little towards the Dell debt.

You are forgiven
Say 3 We are Derbys and 1 Shaftesbury Street 

Regardless of the score tomorrow 
Regardless of our league position
Regardless of whether we are taken over by Appleby, Ashley or go to into liquidation, we are not defeated. 
Whilst we, the fans love our club
Whilst the players give their all
Whilst when Saturday comes we still gather ourselves, our loved ones, our friends, our tickets, our scarves with that glint in our eye, we are not defeated. 
In August whether we are in the Championship, League One or the Northern Premier League we will be full of pride, because we are part of something that money can't buy or take away.
We are Derby. 
We are not defeated. 
 
 

I  buy one tomorrow if I could as derby need our money and our help.

No matter what the various scenarios are, it is hard to see how liquidation could possibly be a good out come for any of the main players.
1 MM will lose a fortune
2 HMRC will lose a fortune
3 MSD will be left owning a stadium/training ground with no Tennant.
4 Other creditors lose a fortune
5 EFL reputation as a governing body further destroyed
6 Football as a whole loses DCFC, a founder member, likely to hasten structural change even to the PL whether they like it or not.
 
There is not an outcome for any stakeholder that is worse than liquidation, so for this reason alone, I have hope.

But that's not true.  If a bidder buys the club for (say) £30m then they get the club trading as a business - season ticket and other income, TV income, sponsorship income, goodwill and all the other things that go with a football club.  They buy one of the founders of the league (at the moment) well managed by one of England's all time great players, they get training facilities and an academy with Cat1 status and a fantastic reputation in this area, they get one of the biggest fanbases in the lowest 3 divisions.  They buy potential - a club that's always looking to go upwards even if the trajectory might be the opposite way and they buy opportunity. 
Never (I suspect in the history of English football) will an owner have had such an opportunity to balance the books, to create a business model that works - the player wages/contracts will be the lowest they've ever been, not only in pounds, shillings and pence but also as a % of income.  And they buy a staff and fan group pretty demoralised by the events of the last 6 months off the pitch. In short they can create a club almost from scratch and turn negativity into positivity almost overnight.
We are, in short, one helluva opportunity for a purchaser with some seed money, with ambition, imagination and a willingness to achieve a lot in a short space of time.  And, relatively, cheap too - not necessarily in terms of how the deal stacks up as a deal but how much you might have to spend on a company giving you similar opportunities.  We can be profitable and we can be fun to own.
And, no I I do not work for Quantuma.

not in terms of tax law I doubt.

I think Wayne has behaved admirably and been treated appallingly. As far as I'm concerned, although I would like him to stay, he can leave with his head held high. I believe that if we could have kept the squad we had at the start of the season we would have survived but with a depleted squad it really is an enormous challenge now.

Atherstone
2. HMRC forced a rule change to stop Football Clubs using administration to avoid/reduce tax bills. I genuinely believe they will stick it out for either a bigger settlement than 25% or be prepared to forego a max £7.5m to drive home a message to the Football World.
You make the HMRC point a lot. HMRC deal with debt via administrators quite a lot. They in the vast majority of cases are offered a choice between 2 figures, percentage of valuation of liquidated assets OR a percentage of money raised through sale as going concern. They take the higher figure.
What you are suggesting os that HMRC will take a bigger loss to "drive home a message to the Football World." In other words treat the Football business in a different way to all other businesses. You may be right but I find that unlikely.

No matter what the various scenarios are, it is hard to see how liquidation could possibly be a good out come for any of the main players.
1 MM will lose a fortune
2 HMRC will lose a fortune
3 MSD will be left owning a stadium/training ground with no Tennant.
4 Other creditors lose a fortune
5 EFL reputation as a governing body further destroyed
6 Football as a whole loses DCFC, a founder member, likely to hasten structural change even to the PL whether they like it or not.
 
There is not an outcome for any stakeholder that is worse than liquidation, so for this reason alone, I have hope.

No matter what the various scenarios are, it is hard to see how liquidation could possibly be a good out come for any of the main players.
1 MM will lose a fortune
2 HMRC will lose a fortune
3 MSD will be left owning a stadium/training ground with no Tennant.
4 Other creditors lose a fortune
5 EFL reputation as a governing body further destroyed
6 Football as a whole loses DCFC, a founder member, likely to hasten structural change even to the PL whether they like it or not.
 
There is not an outcome for any stakeholder that is worse than liquidation, so for this reason alone, I have hope.

Atherstone
2. HMRC forced a rule change to stop Football Clubs using administration to avoid/reduce tax bills. I genuinely believe they will stick it out for either a bigger settlement than 25% or be prepared to forego a max £7.5m to drive home a message to the Football World.
You make the HMRC point a lot. HMRC deal with debt via administrators quite a lot. They in the vast majority of cases are offered a choice between 2 figures, percentage of valuation of liquidated assets OR a percentage of money raised through sale as going concern. They take the higher figure.
What you are suggesting os that HMRC will take a bigger loss to "drive home a message to the Football World." In other words treat the Football business in a different way to all other businesses. You may be right but I find that unlikely.

Right, having checked companies house in detail, this is my understanding of the situation (not an accountant etc etc).  There are 3 "loans" in play:
Rams Investment Ltd, purely related to the stadium. Taken out in November 2019, cleared in October 2021. MSD, linked to *both* DCFC and the stadium. Taken August 2020, still outstanding. MSD, purely DCFC related, secured against the training ground. Taken October 2020, still outstanding. The first MSD loan is secured against both DCFC assets and the stadium. It is a club loan (not a personal Morris one), and presumably was used to provide funding during lockdown.  The second MSD loan is basically just an extension of the first one - you can see Supplemental Debenture listed on it.  We extended the loan and added in the training ground as additional security.  The club is on the hock for the collective MSD loans, and we know their value (as of November 2021) was £20m as it's in the admins statement of affairs.  Morris has no personal loan from MSD (linked to the stadium anyway), other than offering up the stadium as security for the club's loan.
The Rams Investment Ltd loan (we have no idea of the value) was taken out over a year after the stadium was purchased, and cleared at some point before October 2021.  We don't know what it was for, but it seems unlikely it was to buy the stadium, given it was a year after the fact.  It's also a bit weird, because both this loan and the MSD one contain negative pledges - which means that you can't also use that asset as security for something else.  So it seems strange that either party would accept the MSD loan if RIL still had a major charge against the stadium.  The most likely explanation seems to be that the loan was cleared a long time ago but just not updated on companies house etc, which fits with what the article says.  But either way, it was cleared at least 6 months ago.
The accepted wisdom (and this was literally stated on Radio Derby yesterday morning, that's how widespread it is) is that Morris wants ~£22m for the stadium and will use that to clear the outstanding MSD loans and then hand the stadium over.  If you have any evidence that that isn't true, then now is the time to post it.  Because if you are claiming that paying Morris £22m for the stadium will not clear the outstanding £20m+ that the club owes MSD, then that fundamentally changes a lot of stuff.

No matter what the various scenarios are, it is hard to see how liquidation could possibly be a good out come for any of the main players.
1 MM will lose a fortune
2 HMRC will lose a fortune
3 MSD will be left owning a stadium/training ground with no Tennant.
4 Other creditors lose a fortune
5 EFL reputation as a governing body further destroyed
6 Football as a whole loses DCFC, a founder member, likely to hasten structural change even to the PL whether they like it or not.
 
There is not an outcome for any stakeholder that is worse than liquidation, so for this reason alone, I have hope.