Shuff264

9 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I don't see those factors as relevant, as it's the trend you want to look at rather than is someone at 2 ppg or 1 ppg. The managers who maintained a steady ppg record (Rowett, Lampard, Rooney) were the ones who left, whilst the ones who were on a downward trajectory (Mac1, Clement, Mac2, Cocu) were all sacked. The question here would be, is Warne going to level off an maintain his current ppg record, or continue to drop off and follow a similar downward trend to Cocu.

If he maintains at a 1.5ppg we stand to get 69pts, enough for 9th last season.

Even if he returns to his best, 1.75ppg that would be 80pts and scraping into 6th place last season.

We improved second half when we sat Bird deeper along side Smith, that gives you a solid shape and creates plenty of passing options for the defence.

Wing backs need to stay deeper and provide options for the midfield and defence, this also helps prevent us being caught on the counter.

6 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Judging on 1 game is pointless. A 20 game run tells a different story. Very few managers chasing promotion will survive spells matching half a season with (almost) relegation form.

His overall record with us isn't too bad. Last night means his ppg record in now in between Lampard and Mac2, and a win record a fraction better than Clement.

This was broadly my point, yes its only 2 games into the season but Warne has managed us for 46 now.

We cant afford to start slowly either, after 20 games last season the final top 6 were all inside the top 8.

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

True but I don’t see why you should include cup games when trying extrapolate league position. Also, 20 games is a rather convenient cut off as that starts when our good run ended. If you look at the last 25 league games it’s won 12, drew 5 and lost 8. Our last 8 was W3, D3 and L2. 
 

What I’m trying to say is that the line can be drawn at different places in order to prove different points. None of the examples are anywhere near where we want to be (or think we should be) but there are two above that don’t paint quite such a bleak picture as you’ve called out.

Thats fair, and my own bias probably led me to draw the line where I did, but still pains a grim picture.

I included cup games as it was only the game last night, which felt relevant against as promotion rival.

Just to give another angle to this, if you take our last 20 games in all competitions our record is:

6 wins, 5 draws, 9 losses.

That would be 23pts, which after 20 games last season would have us 18th.

Performance is obviously the biggest concern over results.

I don't expect a Paul Warne side to play free flowing, passing football (even if I think this will be our undoing as teams will just let us have the ball).

I do expect a Warne team to be able to counter at speed, we are yet to show this.

I do expect a Warne team to be organised defensively, but we have chasms in defence with players not challenging for headers.

I do expect a Warne team to be able to press, but from what I've seen so far a Warne press is just chasing the ball. Teams, even at league 1 level, are trained to play through the press. You have to be smarter and set traps for teams, we are reactively pressing the ball.

I'm confused by what this team is supposed to be good at? Especially going forward where at times during the first half we had 5 players stood in a line up front, with no passes available in midfield.

Second goal is a direct result of this suicide press style, Hourihane presses the back line for some reason, Cashin steps out into midfield to press and leaves a chasm between Elder and Bradley. Elder coming back across his goal has only one direction to put the ball.

Second half was an improvement, but I think mainly due to Blackpool feeling comfortable sitting in and watching us do nothing with the ball, much like Wigan. The team does not have a plan for breaking down teams, it's just get it out wide and cross it in.

Decent player, would be a good signing.

52 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

No goals in 20 odd appearances 

In his slight defence, 4 league starts and 14 substitute appearances totalling 522 minutes, just under 6 full games.

Its not a huge amount of time 

I expect we will switch between 352 and 3421 depending on if we need the body in midfield.

I'd be surprised if our go to isnt 3421 though, just because I don't know what you do with NML and Bark. Neither will want to be playing wing back, let alone second choice at wing back.

The two don't have to play particularly wide as the wingbacks will offer that, if the ball is on the wing, the opposite "winger" should be coming narrow to join the striker and make a 2.

My main concern is having a striker that will be able to hold the ball and bring players into the game.

Contract length may be playing a part here.

Wonder if we are unwilling to give more than a 1 year contract, Notts may be giving 2.

There's no way he could press the way Warne would want, but at least he could hold a ball up front.

51 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

2. Nugent (186)

4. Martin (166)

5. Whittingham (160)

7. Ince (146)

14. ??? (124)

16. ??? (121)

17. ??? (116)

=18. ??? (113)

=20. ??? (111)

 

Here a few few clues (in no particular order):

One was on loan and scored 3 in 10 games

One was with us for only half a season and scored 6 in 20

One never played for us in a Championship fixture.

One failed to score in his 14 games for us.

One was with us for 3 seasons and scored 26 league goals.

Have we had Waghorn yet?

Paterson or Weimann done enough?

3 hours ago, Marriot Ram99 said:

I think NML is quite a bit better than Ebosele tbh, better end product especially when it comes to shooting, Ebosele would be good to have as a sub though. 

Mount, Wilson and Tomori are obviously no brainers. 

Don't know if Kazim Richards is still fit enough now but if he can play like he did a few years ago then I'd have him over Collins. Better touch and technical ability as a goal scorer he'd probably score about the same as Collins at this level. 

Obviously Hughes would be very good in League 1, not sure on Johnny Russell's level these days but you would think he would still be atleast a good impact sub. 

Definitely wouldn't want Malone, Bennett, Johnson or Butterfield back if he is still playing. 

Butterfield currently 23rd in the national League with Scunthorpe 

Based on what we need, probably Bogle 

34 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Not sure how many been sold for Newport but I am guessing about 500 ish.

Website is saying 300 left, unless there is another block to come

15 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

I thought train strikes were off? Don’t say they are back again! I would have gone to quite a few away games if not for these ruddy strikes. 

Trains should be fine?

Strikes are on Saturday,game is Sunday. Maybe an issue in the morning but afaik they would be ok?

42 minutes ago, chadlad said:

Question is will he play both of the Dobbin brothers? ??

Missed one out last time, and now one too many! Can't win ?

As last time, I make the "Qualifying Players" the below, we just need to pick 4 of the 10 outfield players from it (Its basically everyone barring Thompson).

Chester
Davies
Cashin
Mendez-Laing
Knight
Bird
Hourihane
Barkhuizen
Dobbin
Collins
Sibley
Forsyth
McGoldrick
Stearman
Smith
Dobbin
Roberts
Osula

What is going on, couldn't go a month without a news story?

55 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

So, do we waste a @Ghost of Cloughmatch thread on this or is this the de facto thread?

From @Shuff264's fantastic investigation of the rules I'd suggest he's missed Fozzy and we should pick our 4 as:

Fozzy (to skipper the side)

Dobbin (to try to get a goal)

Collins (to try to get a goal)

Smith (for fitness)

Loach

Oduroh    Rooney     Forsyth (c)     Grewal-Pollard

Smith     Thompson

Dobbin    Aghatise     Nunn

Collins

If Collins needs a rest then Dobbin up top and Bird in as the fourth man.

Damn, theres always one!

I dont think the selection rules are even that strict, I've gone through them and I think all we need to do is start any 4 of the following:

Roberts
Cashin
Stearman
Knight
Bird
Hourihane
Barkhuizen
Sibley
Dobbin
Collins
Mendez-Laing
Davies
McGoldrick
Smith

Its 4 outfield players who have:

- Started the game before

- Start the following game

- 10 players with the most starts this season

- Has made 40 or more appearances

- Premier league loan player

Its more an evolution on last season rather than a revolution, watching yesterday it was a definitely 2-3-2-3 with the ball.

Full backs joining the midfield allowing two of the midfield three to push up, wingers staying high and wide to keep the pitch big and isolate full backs one v one.

President of Business, doing alright for himself

https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1548940755259064320?t=MC3uB9aLGDm_QszoZBT-Vw&s=19

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

 

Maybe a little bit more like this:

CB   CB

RB       DM           

      DM    AM    LB

RW       CF     LW   

LB push a bit higher and LW tucked in a little bit. At times you'd have crosses from the right with Collins, McGoldrick, Barkhuizen and Forsyth to aim at.

I think this is pretty close, I've been at Bradford and Hertha and while we did play slightly differently it was mostly the same.

I think we line up in a 4-2-3-1 without the ball, albeit probably more of a 4-4-2.

The number 10 joins with the strike to press the opposition defence but then drops back once the ball enters the midfield, to prevent us being overrun in the centre.

When building from the back, we shift quite dramatically to create good passing angles - trying to prevent players standing in vertical or horizontal lines with one another.

I think this starts with the left back pushing high, this triggers the left winger to come centrally and pushing the number 10 slightly wider. 

In turn this pushes the right winger slightly deeper and further wide to find space, theres now no room for the right back to overlap in a similar way to the left back so he comes centrally in an under lap.

To cover the left back and allow for the right backs movement, the the midfield two shift left slightly with the one of the two operating in a similar role to the right back.

This creates an almost diamond shape:

The above is more accurate to what I saw at Bradford than what I saw against Hertha so I'm unsure which is more true to how we will play come first game, but it is my interpretation of it so far.