San Fran Van Rams

Well that's exactly it David. The EFL is not independent, it is mob rule.
I posted what Ridsdale was saying a few months back saying nobody should get a loan, especially clubs who have overspent, because preston were doing fine with  their sadly now ex owner.
I mean Ridsdale for Gods sake! of all people!
 
This is why Derby fans like me cannot take being lectutured to about our club being punished to "maintain the integrity " of the League.
It is pure hypocrisy.
 
 
 
 

Maguire accused an auditor of not being independent because he was a rams fan. 
 
did he provide any evidence  that the auditors work was impacted in anyway by the fact if being a rams fan. No he didn’t. 
 
I have heard a lot of quotes from maguire and I have never heard him criticise Efl. Other commentators have. Nixon has. Samuel at the mail has. Parliament has.
how come maguire never does. To me he is obviously biased that is my opinion and I am not the only one who thinks that. 
 
it is a fact that maguire and parry worked together. I am not passing on anything as fact that this is only opinion.

Where did I say that I blame him? I dislike the fact that he tried to "big up" his reputation by incorrectly inferring that we were cheating but I don't blame him.
If the EFL had accepted the decision of the independent panel then we could all have moved on. It is their decision to appeal and take it to another panel which (cynics might say deliberately) lacked the necessary expertise which is so infuriating.
I also don't agree with the decision to sell the stadium, for the same reasons you point out. Nevertheless, however unwise and short-sighted the decision was, my point is that it was NOT cheating and should not have been portrayed as such by the media or, more importantly, the EFL.

He is neither objective nor professional. The club's auditors and the Independent Panel (which included a qualified accountant) both confirmed that the club's amortisation policy was compliant with FRS 102. Maguire sought to make a name for himself by repeatedly pointing out that the policy was slightly different to that used by other clubs and inferring that we were cheating. The EFL saw this as an opportunity to get back at Mel Morris and took it to the Panel, only for us to be exonerated (save for a need to expand the notes in the accounts). Unwilling to lose face in this matter, the EFL appealed the decision (so much for the independent review process) and set up another panel with no accountants asked to rule on an accounting matter which then (unsurprisingly) found us guilty. It is this which infuriates most of our fans.
As for the stadium sale, this was a one-off opportunity to realise the increase in value of the stadium to ease the FFP situation. The valuation was professionally obtained, and both submitted to and adjusted in accordance with the stipulations of the EFL, before the transaction went ahead. Whether or not the transaction was in the best interests of the club is a moot point, but it was categorically NOT cheating. That has not stopped the media and the EFL trying to smear it as such. For the EFL to bring a disciplinary charge against the club for carrying out a transaction which they had not only sanctioned, but which had actually been adjusted in accordance with their stipulations, beggars belief and can only have been motivated by vindictiveness.
For all of their stated desire for fair play, we have seen precious little of it from the EFL so far. They have an opportunity to redeem themselves if they give the Administrators' appeal against the 12 point deduction a fair hearing. We shall see.

You scenario test for possible future events, such as a sudden loss of revenue, and design mitigating plans to increase the resilience of your business. 
Risk management. 

? I do get very serious about certain  things. It’s the way I am made. Things like this get my goat and I turn full on grumpy old goat. ? 
In the end the EFL is a democratic body elected by its members and supposed to represent its electorate in a just manner.
The best recognised democratic process always has 3 key elements 
Legislature
Executive
Judiciary 
The legislature is the EFL: it’s electorate .. it’s members……  It makes the laws on their behalf.
The executive enforces the laws .. it’s the police … or officers appointed by the executive with suitable terms of reference.
The judiciary  becomes involved when laws(rules) are breached
It is an absolute fundamental that the legislature and the executive do not meddle with, put pressure on or interfere with the judiciary …That is the way to a failed state, government tapping up judges, leaning on them blah blah  .. By commenting publicly they put tacit pressure on the judiciary .. Offside EFL.  …. If you don’t like the judgment then you should have made different laws that were better put together, less open to interpretation. If the EFL didn’t like a judgment then it’s only action should be to modify the law for the future. That is the only mandate it has….. So, They were “regretful”  or “disappointed” .. in that case the fault lies entirely at their door. The words of the  law were their responsibility. By commenting they simply show that they drew bad laws 
Pompous Jono lecture over … (Thank you Norman Ilett my long dead History teacher .. you were a grumpy odd bod but taught with clarity, balance and honesty ) 
 

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

You've saved me the effort here. What you have articulated here ABSOLUTELY spot on. Couldn't agree any more with what you've said here.

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

An EFL loan of £8.3 Million which had to be repaid within a year.
Am I the only one who is thinking this but what was the point of that loan?

Just on this point, there have been so many inconsistencies, changes of tact, miss-information, delays and any number of other issues from the EFL, aptly called out by so many on this forum, that such a statement ought to include a history of the EFL's treatment of us.  The EFL constantly dodge the issues with politically spun responses, and just fall back to quoting their (inconsistently applied) rules.
Don't get me wrong, Mel massively messed up in lots of ways (arrogance, naivete, poor decisions) but the EFL's treatment of us has gone beyond acceptable and there must surely be a strong argument to say they have in fact massively contributed to our current demise and have, for the past 24 months, through embargoes, ridiculous appeals and unexplained delays played a key role in leading us to where we are today. I find it incredibly frustrating that they seem to be able to don huge Teflon coats, avoid all accountability and that someone (I honestly don't know who though) isn't holding them to real account on this, if not for our benefits, then those of all other EFL members. 
It would be great to see a single document listing all the issues over this time, the EFL's responses and the counter-arguments on behalf of Derby pointing out impacts / inconsistencies / rationale etc. 

Exactly. The timing is significant. The applications were required by end of July 2020 , the IDC verdict was on 25 August which found us substantially not guilty. 
 
so that’s entirely consistent with us applying for an extension pending satisfactory resolution of the charges pending.
 
so still the Efl trying to swerve the main issue which is that it is their own charges that made us ineligible for the loan.

Firstly they want to see our demise (or as close to it as possible.)
Secondly, they will use our demise to hold up as an example that the current rules don't work, therefore the clubs and more importantly,  the EPL, must vote to change them.
It feels to me like we are collateral damage in a bigger battle.
The fact that we are a "big club" helps their case.

That all sounds very garbled and not consistent with publicly available information.
 
are they saying the loans had to be repaid by 31 July 2021? And we couldn’t commit to that ? If so Well I wouldn’t be surprised .. what’s the point of a loan to cover losses from COVID that needs to be repaid whilst those losses are still accumulating? 

Macclesfield, Bury, Wigan, Were teams that were seriously taken advantage of by unscrupulous businessmen, 2 are no longer members of the EFL the other after almost a miraculous escape suffered relegation after a 12 point deduction...and are now doing well, Their fans had nothing to do with their outcome, The EFL who are the regulatory body and gate keepers failed miserably in their duty to protect them from people who only wanted to make money for themselves.
Bolton almost went the same way, Anderson who was the owner/major shareholder wouldn't budge with his demands, The EFL caved in and Anderson walked away with what he wanted.
The ELF signed off our accounts only for some one to complain Maguire/Gibson to force the EFL to take another look at DCFC, Eventually the outcome we all know.
MM set the ball in motion to get a better deal from Sky who had got the deal they wanted from the EFL, MM is on record with his comments that he and the EFL are at loggerheads with each other after he tried to get other Chairman involved in negotiating a better deal...The EFL have never forgiven him.
What's the comman denominator in all this...the Fans!!, No one cares about football supporters.

I would just like to add that sky sports have very little to actually show on TV without the EFL who should have a huge bargaining chip to sell rather than being grateful for some crumbs 

From EFL statement 17 September
"The EFL entered into a debt raise to provide its Clubs with access to funds that would support them in dealing with the impact of COVID and, as with any loan, this was subject to a timeframe and eligibility criteria which Derby County was unable to meet."
 
So here they say we are unable to meet the eligibility criteria, which according to media reports included not being "suspected of breaching EFL rules". So because they accused us of breaking the rules, (mere accusation being enough) and because they agreed criteria that by definition excluded us from eligibility we didn't get the loan? And now they are saying its because we didn't apply.
 
Quite frankly this goes beyond spin , it is deliberately misleading and dishonest from the EFL. 

Unfortunately, IMHO we should have learned by now that our streams of information/ misinformation for DCFC’s ongoing struggles with The EFL are being fed to us by people and organisations that in truth we can’t really believe everything and possibly anything they say.
We will never know the truth about anything regarding this whole ? ⛈ 
I believe that there has been a serious dereliction of duties within both parties and we as the “little people” have no other option than to grin and bare it.

I was appalled to read the EFL response to the Ramstrust questions. @San Fran Van Ramsarticulated some of it, but this determination to see Derby under new owners sent down the leagues irrespective of the integrity of the competition they run, is just vindictive.
But what was worse for me was the wanton disregard for the welfare of our academy players who aren't allowed to be in the squad. Their plan can only be to try to destroy the Derby Academy by forcing the good prospects to leave in search of first team football. The fair and equitable solution would have been to establish a cutoff at the end of the transfer window and allow academy players to join the first team in addition to this. 
Again, I find it extraordinary that we have heard nothing from the PFA about this.

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.

I completely disagree. Their response only strengthens my view that EFL is completely incompetent.
Firstly  - multiple occasions they've dodged questions and fall back on an argument that the current and potential future punishments seek to maintain the 'integrity' of the league. bullpoo. How is the integrity of the league being maintained when we're being forced to play a makeshift team full of academy rookies and retired pros? Its a minor miracle Rooney is doing the job he's doing. 
They completely disregard that the club has already been penalized to the point of extinction, and are still pushing for further sanctions which will only to serve to damage the supporters, the local community, and if we're lucky, new owners. The club is on its knees and all they can talk about is maintaining league integrity because 'its what the rules say' - they don't seem to grasp the issue that the rules are not fit for purpose in the first place. They also completely miss the point that our suspended 3 point penalty (for paying players 22 days late) was completely out of whack with what they agreed for Sheff Weds (and other clubs have got off scott free for the same offense in the past).
Also, this whole 'its the benefactor model which is wrong' cr@p needs to end. the EFL and its member clubs are in this financial predicament because the EFL are incompetent commercially, cannot negotiate a proper broadcasting deal, and have bent over and presented themselves to the EPL to take full advantage of. More regulations, such as the cost controls they're talking about, will only serve to broaden the gap between the EPL and EFL. Football either needs to stop being run as a business, or you let those who understand business run the football. You can't go either way.