duncanjwitham

In my opinion, @duncanjwithamisn’t too far wrong in his assessment. Warne will get more time, and obviously deserves more time, but I have always been concerned that he might be only good at getting energy and fight out of less talented footballers. I am not convinced he is any tactical genius (indeed I think he is a one trick pony) and I am not sure he knows how to vary his man management approach to deal with (on paper) better players than he is used to dealing with. I think snide comments regarding McGoldrick, Chester and Barkhuisen in interviews indicates that there might not be the happy changing room there was last season, or even a few weeks ago. Time will tell in the end, but I think there is a chance that things might get a little ugly over the coming month.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

If he’d come in, maybe simplified things a bit, got a bit more movement out of the forwards, got the midfielders taking a few more risks on the ball etc, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Those tweaks, which I suspect Rosenior was probably trying to make most of anyway, would have made a big difference, while moving us slightly towards his preferred style of football.  And then in January and next summer, he can think about changing the squad to suit his style a bit more.
by coming in and literally tearing everything up and starting again, when the squad really wasn’t in that bad a place at all, it’s entirely his fault if it all goes pear-shaped.

(Paraphrasing...) "I accept responsibility that the players didn't run enough and didn't tackle enough" is not accepting responsibility, it's pretending to accept responsibility while lumping all the blame on the players.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

We’ve had a decade or so of near-catastrophic mis-management. The new owner has come in talking a good game, and then immediately set off making exactly the same mistakes as the last one. Frankly, I’m way past the point of giving anyone time to keep on making stupid mistakes. I just want someone at the club making decisions with just a tiny bit of common-sense and long-term planning.  I categorically do not want us to be the kind of club that Warne turned Rotherham into, so I have no interest in allowing him to go any further in changing us.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

We’ve had a decade or so of near-catastrophic mis-management. The new owner has come in talking a good game, and then immediately set off making exactly the same mistakes as the last one. Frankly, I’m way past the point of giving anyone time to keep on making stupid mistakes. I just want someone at the club making decisions with just a tiny bit of common-sense and long-term planning.  I categorically do not want us to be the kind of club that Warne turned Rotherham into, so I have no interest in allowing him to go any further in changing us.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

The problem Bird was having under Rosenior was the lack of passing options in front of him.  Last season he had Ravel Morrison as a number 9 demanding the ball, Plange and Kazim dropping off the front showing for the ball, Knight drifting in from out wide, and even Lawrence showing for it at times. This season, Collins stands in the 6 yard box, Hourihane is too static and everyone else (NML, Dobbin, Osula, Bakhuizen etc) is wanting to make runs in behind.  McGoldrick is the only forward player we have that shows for the ball and wants it into feet, and he's been injured a lot.  So Bird picks up the ball and can either thread a perfect through ball for the likes of Dobbin, or safely play it sideways.  And that's just got even worse under Warne, because we spend half the time lumping it over Birds head as well.
For all the people that said Will Hughes never does anything, the team (certainly under Rosenior anyway) is what a team without someone like Will Hughes doing his stuff looks like.  The stuff Hughes did was busting a gut to get into space at all times, then just get it and move it on quickly (rinse and repeat).  We have no one doing that - Bird should be picking the ball up, playing a ball 5/10 yards forward to that guy, and then Bird can advance and get it back again, but he's now 20 yards further up the pitch and those through balls to Dobbin etc are suddenly a lot more playable.  

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

I think his time should be up. I was never a fan of the appointment, I think it was and remains a massive mistake, and the sooner that mistake is rectified, the sooner we can start recovering from it.  He very clearly has no intention of changing anything about his approach, and if this kind of form continues, I don’t see how we will be in any kind of touch with the playoffs to mount a challenge post-January.  If it’s clear we’re not going up this season, I suspect we lose all the good youngsters - why on earth are Knight, Cashin, Bird etc going to stay here when they will get plenty of offers at Championship level or higher.  And you can count on attendances declining if we’re still playing dreadful football in League 1, which is whittling away the big advantage we have over most other clubs in this league.
There are other factors too. If we persist in this style of play, we’re rendering the academy pointless. What’s the point of developing players like Darren Robinson, if they’re never going to fit into the managers style? There’s years of effort gone into developing technical ball-playing footballers that’s entirely wasted. And if you break that path into the first team, you’re damaging the academy in years to come, because having that in place is a key selling point when recruiting youngsters. Again, that’s just trashing another of the big advantages we should have at this level.
It’s not being a whiney baby, the club does not have an unconditional right to my support, it’s a 2-way transaction. If the club is telling me they are actively choosing to play dreadful football, that the club is going to be in a mess for years entirely because of decisions that they have made, then I don’t see why I should bother turning up. If the club is trying to play decent entertaining football, trying to do things right, then I will give them all the time in the world. But under Warne, I just don’t believe that.  I do not believe there is any justification to allowing a man with a track record of getting relegated from the Championship, to trash every facet of the club, in the hope that we might win some games in a couple of years time.

(Paraphrasing...) "I accept responsibility that the players didn't run enough and didn't tackle enough" is not accepting responsibility, it's pretending to accept responsibility while lumping all the blame on the players.

If he’d come in, maybe simplified things a bit, got a bit more movement out of the forwards, got the midfielders taking a few more risks on the ball etc, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Those tweaks, which I suspect Rosenior was probably trying to make most of anyway, would have made a big difference, while moving us slightly towards his preferred style of football.  And then in January and next summer, he can think about changing the squad to suit his style a bit more.
by coming in and literally tearing everything up and starting again, when the squad really wasn’t in that bad a place at all, it’s entirely his fault if it all goes pear-shaped.

(Paraphrasing...) "I accept responsibility that the players didn't run enough and didn't tackle enough" is not accepting responsibility, it's pretending to accept responsibility while lumping all the blame on the players.

I thought Warne's nice-guy personality and seemingly friendly attitude with the players would give him a big advantage over Pearson's "My way or the highway" style. But the stuff coming out of the dressing room after last night (Warne's comments to Dom Dietrich, the stuff about players faking injuries, Forsyth basically suggesting has nothing to offer other than "run around more"), suggests it's just Pearson all over again.  Utterly stubborn, no interest in what anyone else has to say, we're going to keep doing the same things over and over again until we get different results.
The other thing is, a lot of the players here clearly bought into what Rosenior was selling them.  It was a prohect and they wanted to join in.  Barkhuizen and NML both left previous clubs, at least in part, because they didn't want to play wingback.  Hourihane was convinced that we were going to play in a way to get the best out of him.  Bird, Knight, and Thompson clearly thought they would be allowed to develop in a decent, technical ball-playing side etc etc.  All of that is in the bin after 10 games. I wouldn't blame any of the players for being very unhappy about what's gone on.

If he’d come in, maybe simplified things a bit, got a bit more movement out of the forwards, got the midfielders taking a few more risks on the ball etc, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Those tweaks, which I suspect Rosenior was probably trying to make most of anyway, would have made a big difference, while moving us slightly towards his preferred style of football.  And then in January and next summer, he can think about changing the squad to suit his style a bit more.
by coming in and literally tearing everything up and starting again, when the squad really wasn’t in that bad a place at all, it’s entirely his fault if it all goes pear-shaped.

(Paraphrasing...) "I accept responsibility that the players didn't run enough and didn't tackle enough" is not accepting responsibility, it's pretending to accept responsibility while lumping all the blame on the players.

(Paraphrasing...) "I accept responsibility that the players didn't run enough and didn't tackle enough" is not accepting responsibility, it's pretending to accept responsibility while lumping all the blame on the players.

(Paraphrasing...) "I accept responsibility that the players didn't run enough and didn't tackle enough" is not accepting responsibility, it's pretending to accept responsibility while lumping all the blame on the players.