duncanjwitham

"The EFL has successfully brought charges against clubs for historical PSR breaches. Sheffield Wednesday and Derby were docked points by the EFL in 2020 for breaches of regulations that had taken place more than two years earlier, with both cases related to using the sale of their stadiums to sister companies to generate profit in their accounts."
FFS 🤬

It's not a binary choice of get it forward quickly, or play sideways on your own 18 yard line all game though.  There's a spectrum of positions in between.  Last season, we had a lower pass completion percentage than every single Premier League team, played more long balls than every one of them, and put more crosses in than every one.  The situation is pretty much the same in the Championship - last season our stats would have put us in the bottom 3 (or top 3 depending on how you look at it) for all those stats too.  Nobody in the higher leagues is playing the way we do, or at least not to the same extent anyway.   (You can argue Prem players are better the ours etc, but they were also playing against Prem standard opponents too.)
I don't think anybody is absolutely demanding that we play like a Guardiola team or anything, there's a reasonable spread of ways of playing that are both entertaining and affective.  And if we pick one of those and play it reasonably well then most people are going to be happy.  But at the moment, and for most of the last 2 years, we've been so far beyond the other end of the acceptable range (IMO anyway) that it's dreadful to watch.  Nobody minds the ball going forwards quickly.  I can't imagine anybody really like the ball getting slung forward/wide at the first chance and more often than not always given away, and then we get to watch the other team pass round us for 5 minutes.  And that's been happening far too much.

It's not a binary choice of get it forward quickly, or play sideways on your own 18 yard line all game though.  There's a spectrum of positions in between.  Last season, we had a lower pass completion percentage than every single Premier League team, played more long balls than every one of them, and put more crosses in than every one.  The situation is pretty much the same in the Championship - last season our stats would have put us in the bottom 3 (or top 3 depending on how you look at it) for all those stats too.  Nobody in the higher leagues is playing the way we do, or at least not to the same extent anyway.   (You can argue Prem players are better the ours etc, but they were also playing against Prem standard opponents too.)
I don't think anybody is absolutely demanding that we play like a Guardiola team or anything, there's a reasonable spread of ways of playing that are both entertaining and affective.  And if we pick one of those and play it reasonably well then most people are going to be happy.  But at the moment, and for most of the last 2 years, we've been so far beyond the other end of the acceptable range (IMO anyway) that it's dreadful to watch.  Nobody minds the ball going forwards quickly.  I can't imagine anybody really like the ball getting slung forward/wide at the first chance and more often than not always given away, and then we get to watch the other team pass round us for 5 minutes.  And that's been happening far too much.

In this specific case, I think it's basically because there's only so far you can go by trying to out-run and out-work the other team.  There are diminishing returns as you face better opponents.  At Championship level, all of the other teams are going to be pretty fit too, and they're also going to keep the ball better when you lose it, punish your mistakes more often, make less mistakes themselves etc.  You can't just rely on fitness and work to make up for your deficiencies elsewhere, sooner or later you have to work smarter not just harder.
Even at League One level it was visible to some degree.  There were many games where we were completely reliant on good defending (plus a bit of luck) and then NML, Hourihane or whoever magics a goal out of nowhere to get the points.

In this specific case, I think it's basically because there's only so far you can go by trying to out-run and out-work the other team.  There are diminishing returns as you face better opponents.  At Championship level, all of the other teams are going to be pretty fit too, and they're also going to keep the ball better when you lose it, punish your mistakes more often, make less mistakes themselves etc.  You can't just rely on fitness and work to make up for your deficiencies elsewhere, sooner or later you have to work smarter not just harder.
Even at League One level it was visible to some degree.  There were many games where we were completely reliant on good defending (plus a bit of luck) and then NML, Hourihane or whoever magics a goal out of nowhere to get the points.

In this specific case, I think it's basically because there's only so far you can go by trying to out-run and out-work the other team.  There are diminishing returns as you face better opponents.  At Championship level, all of the other teams are going to be pretty fit too, and they're also going to keep the ball better when you lose it, punish your mistakes more often, make less mistakes themselves etc.  You can't just rely on fitness and work to make up for your deficiencies elsewhere, sooner or later you have to work smarter not just harder.
Even at League One level it was visible to some degree.  There were many games where we were completely reliant on good defending (plus a bit of luck) and then NML, Hourihane or whoever magics a goal out of nowhere to get the points.

There's a few different aspects to this.  Firstly, I think it's difficult to pin blame directly on Warne because we don't know how the process is working behind the scenes.  Are the recruitment team finding great players and Warne is saying no?  Are the recruitment team struggling to find anyone and Warne is on his own?  Are we finding great players but can't afford them, or they're turnings us down for whatever reason?  From the outside we have no clue on those aspects.
Secondly, I think it's clear that the recruitment hasn't been good since Warne got here.  Too many players that contribute nothing because they are permanently injured, or they suddenly don't seem to fit the managers plans, or they keep getting played out of position and struggle.  Obviously it's early days on the new signings, but I'm far from convinced that new midfielders fit Warne's usual high intensity box-to-box style, and I'm unclear as to why we've signed a short striker if we still want to cross a lot.  Even the one that looks good so far (Jackson) plays in the same position as our best attacker from last year, with the result that his form has dropped off a cliff when he's been moved to the other side.  Something, somewhere needs fixing.
Thirdly, and this is the key one for me, is do I want a squad filled with "Warne-type" players, and the answer is simply no.  Obviously character, fitness and work-rate all matter, but if you prioritise those things over everything else (particularly if you aren't exactly overflowing with cash) then you end up with a lot of players that aren't actually very good at the passing/crossing/shooting/tackling stuff that actually matters.  Even if we do get the recruitment right, and all the players fit Warne's style etc, I don't think it will be the kind of squad I particularly want to watch play.

There's a few different aspects to this.  Firstly, I think it's difficult to pin blame directly on Warne because we don't know how the process is working behind the scenes.  Are the recruitment team finding great players and Warne is saying no?  Are the recruitment team struggling to find anyone and Warne is on his own?  Are we finding great players but can't afford them, or they're turnings us down for whatever reason?  From the outside we have no clue on those aspects.
Secondly, I think it's clear that the recruitment hasn't been good since Warne got here.  Too many players that contribute nothing because they are permanently injured, or they suddenly don't seem to fit the managers plans, or they keep getting played out of position and struggle.  Obviously it's early days on the new signings, but I'm far from convinced that new midfielders fit Warne's usual high intensity box-to-box style, and I'm unclear as to why we've signed a short striker if we still want to cross a lot.  Even the one that looks good so far (Jackson) plays in the same position as our best attacker from last year, with the result that his form has dropped off a cliff when he's been moved to the other side.  Something, somewhere needs fixing.
Thirdly, and this is the key one for me, is do I want a squad filled with "Warne-type" players, and the answer is simply no.  Obviously character, fitness and work-rate all matter, but if you prioritise those things over everything else (particularly if you aren't exactly overflowing with cash) then you end up with a lot of players that aren't actually very good at the passing/crossing/shooting/tackling stuff that actually matters.  Even if we do get the recruitment right, and all the players fit Warne's style etc, I don't think it will be the kind of squad I particularly want to watch play.

There's a few different aspects to this.  Firstly, I think it's difficult to pin blame directly on Warne because we don't know how the process is working behind the scenes.  Are the recruitment team finding great players and Warne is saying no?  Are the recruitment team struggling to find anyone and Warne is on his own?  Are we finding great players but can't afford them, or they're turnings us down for whatever reason?  From the outside we have no clue on those aspects.
Secondly, I think it's clear that the recruitment hasn't been good since Warne got here.  Too many players that contribute nothing because they are permanently injured, or they suddenly don't seem to fit the managers plans, or they keep getting played out of position and struggle.  Obviously it's early days on the new signings, but I'm far from convinced that new midfielders fit Warne's usual high intensity box-to-box style, and I'm unclear as to why we've signed a short striker if we still want to cross a lot.  Even the one that looks good so far (Jackson) plays in the same position as our best attacker from last year, with the result that his form has dropped off a cliff when he's been moved to the other side.  Something, somewhere needs fixing.
Thirdly, and this is the key one for me, is do I want a squad filled with "Warne-type" players, and the answer is simply no.  Obviously character, fitness and work-rate all matter, but if you prioritise those things over everything else (particularly if you aren't exactly overflowing with cash) then you end up with a lot of players that aren't actually very good at the passing/crossing/shooting/tackling stuff that actually matters.  Even if we do get the recruitment right, and all the players fit Warne's style etc, I don't think it will be the kind of squad I particularly want to watch play.

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  
If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  
If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  
If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  
If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  
If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

Yates touch map against Watford:

I can't believe I have to actually say this, but we were attacking the goal on the left.  He had one touch in their box in 83 minutes of football, and that was offside.  And only 3 other touches beyond the centre circle.  You could put prime Brazilian Ronaldo in this team and he wouldn't do anything.

To add to that, I want to see a manager actually trying to get his players doing what they're good at, not just jamming them in a random formation and hoping they run around enough so it doesn't matter.
What was the point of having Collins in the team -  he needs crosses to thrive off, and we had a right winger tucking in, a wrong footed guy on the left and our best crosser stuck at right back.
Goudmijn is wasted in this team - he barely gets the ball, and he never has anyone to pass to when he does get it.
Ward can't play right back - he's nowhere near good enough defensively, and you're just making it harder for him to do the one thing he's very good at (crossing).
NML coming on on the left - he just about did okay there last night (without actually producing anything), but he's struggled more often than not.  He's the best out and out winger at the club, but he's hamstrung by playing on the wrong side.
Ozoh as a holding midfielder - he looks decent on the ball but ropey defensively, so if you set up to force the ball forwards/wide all the time and then keep get broken on, you're not letting him get on the ball and play, while exposing his weaknesses.
I could go on and on. I do think there's a half decent team, somewhere amongst the players we have, but I don't think we'll ever see it with Warne in charge.  I don't think the majority of the players can do what Warne wants them to do (despite him signing most of them), and he seems to have no interest in getting them to do what they're actually good at either.

Yates touch map against Watford:

I can't believe I have to actually say this, but we were attacking the goal on the left.  He had one touch in their box in 83 minutes of football, and that was offside.  And only 3 other touches beyond the centre circle.  You could put prime Brazilian Ronaldo in this team and he wouldn't do anything.

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  
If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

I can't tell if your question was supposed to be rhetorical, but for me it's simple.  If you aren't getting results, then you've got to have something to fall back on.  If you're playing attractive/entertaining football, then by and large the fans will give you time to get it right.  If you are clearly building something, then the fans will give you some time to get there.  If you are blooding youngsters then the fans will give them time to develop.
As it stands, we're playing absolutely awful football, and we've got a team that's largely full of players over 30 (or close to anyway) and other clubs youngsters.  Of the guys who are getting regular football for us, who do we think could potentially be a really good player for us over the next say 3 years (or at least a player who improves in value, that we can sell and reinvest)?  Cashin, Goudmijn, Zetterstrom, Wilson maybe, and that's it?  Rooney hasn't kicked a ball in a year, and was barely involved before that.  Thompson gets the odd appearance, Brown even less, and none of our other youngsters get a look in.  The rest of the squad will either be retired, have moved to club down the leagues, or have gone back to their parent clubs.  We're not building anything, we're not developing anything.  There's basically nothing to give you any hope that things will get better.

What is that though? Does anyone actually understand what we're trying to do this season?  If we'd gone out last night with Collins up front, and dropped a load of crosses on his head, we probably win that game.  It might not have been pretty, but it would probably have worked.  Instead he barely got a single cross all night.  Like I said earlier, we started with a narrow right winger, a wrong-footed left winger and our best crosser stuck at right back.  It was blatantly obvious from the line-up that Collins would get no service.  
If the plan is to pump a load of crosses in like last season, I don't understand why we've signed a 5'9 striker and have no left-footed left winger at the club.  If the plan is sit deep and break, I don't understand why we've signed a bunch of midfielders who seem to struggle when teams run at them.  We've got Yates and Goudmijn who seem to want balls into feet and passing options, yet we move the ball forward so quickly that they're always isolated, and we never play into feet anyway.  I genuinely have no idea from watching the first 5 games, what we're actually trying to even do.

Yates touch map against Watford:

I can't believe I have to actually say this, but we were attacking the goal on the left.  He had one touch in their box in 83 minutes of football, and that was offside.  And only 3 other touches beyond the centre circle.  You could put prime Brazilian Ronaldo in this team and he wouldn't do anything.

To add to that, I want to see a manager actually trying to get his players doing what they're good at, not just jamming them in a random formation and hoping they run around enough so it doesn't matter.
What was the point of having Collins in the team -  he needs crosses to thrive off, and we had a right winger tucking in, a wrong footed guy on the left and our best crosser stuck at right back.
Goudmijn is wasted in this team - he barely gets the ball, and he never has anyone to pass to when he does get it.
Ward can't play right back - he's nowhere near good enough defensively, and you're just making it harder for him to do the one thing he's very good at (crossing).
NML coming on on the left - he just about did okay there last night (without actually producing anything), but he's struggled more often than not.  He's the best out and out winger at the club, but he's hamstrung by playing on the wrong side.
Ozoh as a holding midfielder - he looks decent on the ball but ropey defensively, so if you set up to force the ball forwards/wide all the time and then keep get broken on, you're not letting him get on the ball and play, while exposing his weaknesses.
I could go on and on. I do think there's a half decent team, somewhere amongst the players we have, but I don't think we'll ever see it with Warne in charge.  I don't think the majority of the players can do what Warne wants them to do (despite him signing most of them), and he seems to have no interest in getting them to do what they're actually good at either.

I can't tell if your question was supposed to be rhetorical, but for me it's simple.  If you aren't getting results, then you've got to have something to fall back on.  If you're playing attractive/entertaining football, then by and large the fans will give you time to get it right.  If you are clearly building something, then the fans will give you some time to get there.  If you are blooding youngsters then the fans will give them time to develop.
As it stands, we're playing absolutely awful football, and we've got a team that's largely full of players over 30 (or close to anyway) and other clubs youngsters.  Of the guys who are getting regular football for us, who do we think could potentially be a really good player for us over the next say 3 years (or at least a player who improves in value, that we can sell and reinvest)?  Cashin, Goudmijn, Zetterstrom, Wilson maybe, and that's it?  Rooney hasn't kicked a ball in a year, and was barely involved before that.  Thompson gets the odd appearance, Brown even less, and none of our other youngsters get a look in.  The rest of the squad will either be retired, have moved to club down the leagues, or have gone back to their parent clubs.  We're not building anything, we're not developing anything.  There's basically nothing to give you any hope that things will get better.

I can't tell if your question was supposed to be rhetorical, but for me it's simple.  If you aren't getting results, then you've got to have something to fall back on.  If you're playing attractive/entertaining football, then by and large the fans will give you time to get it right.  If you are clearly building something, then the fans will give you some time to get there.  If you are blooding youngsters then the fans will give them time to develop.
As it stands, we're playing absolutely awful football, and we've got a team that's largely full of players over 30 (or close to anyway) and other clubs youngsters.  Of the guys who are getting regular football for us, who do we think could potentially be a really good player for us over the next say 3 years (or at least a player who improves in value, that we can sell and reinvest)?  Cashin, Goudmijn, Zetterstrom, Wilson maybe, and that's it?  Rooney hasn't kicked a ball in a year, and was barely involved before that.  Thompson gets the odd appearance, Brown even less, and none of our other youngsters get a look in.  The rest of the squad will either be retired, have moved to club down the leagues, or have gone back to their parent clubs.  We're not building anything, we're not developing anything.  There's basically nothing to give you any hope that things will get better.

I can't tell if your question was supposed to be rhetorical, but for me it's simple.  If you aren't getting results, then you've got to have something to fall back on.  If you're playing attractive/entertaining football, then by and large the fans will give you time to get it right.  If you are clearly building something, then the fans will give you some time to get there.  If you are blooding youngsters then the fans will give them time to develop.
As it stands, we're playing absolutely awful football, and we've got a team that's largely full of players over 30 (or close to anyway) and other clubs youngsters.  Of the guys who are getting regular football for us, who do we think could potentially be a really good player for us over the next say 3 years (or at least a player who improves in value, that we can sell and reinvest)?  Cashin, Goudmijn, Zetterstrom, Wilson maybe, and that's it?  Rooney hasn't kicked a ball in a year, and was barely involved before that.  Thompson gets the odd appearance, Brown even less, and none of our other youngsters get a look in.  The rest of the squad will either be retired, have moved to club down the leagues, or have gone back to their parent clubs.  We're not building anything, we're not developing anything.  There's basically nothing to give you any hope that things will get better.