PBW Ram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I'm not accusing you of anything Networker and I don't think you should over worry about protecting yourself. You make it sound as if I'm attacking you. I'm just making an observation that I think your views and your stance change to suit the thread and in my opinion you've done it already four or five times today. If you say that you don't then it's fine, surely you don't care what I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 PBW you cannot nitpick at little events like this.. We've scored ffrom about 6 set-pieces already this season, what happens if one of these gets diverted or deflected away.. What happens if Tyson balloons his shot over the bar.. No-one can say we've been unlucky in parts that have cost us without admitting perhaps we've been fortunate in others.. It was the same last season with comments regarding unlucky defeats being the reason why we didn't make the playoffs, yet totally disregarding the X amount of lucky wins we had.. So far as I see it NC has to take a massive share of the blame for all 3 games.. It's no coincidence that as Duracell mentioned we're unbeaten in first half displays but have lost all our second halves this season.. What exactly is NC telling them at HT? I bet it's something along the lines of 'what we have at 70 minutes we protect' whether that's a win or a point.. And just as EKR has said, we're not going to go down so why not try and create a winning mentality rather than a hard to beat mentality.. They're completely different, one tries to win late on, the other tries to protect what they have.. I've mentioned before but I'd feel cheated paying money to watch an away game knowing that at 70 minutes my team has given up trying to wi the game.. a nice sensible post bris and one i agree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 It is the condescending nature of many posts, especially in this thread that annoys me. If you decide to knock Clough then are you are stupid? Judging peoples opinions as rubbish? Just because you have concerns about the manager does not make you a poor supporter. As far as I am concerned, the only evidence I have is that Clough is a good enough manager to keep us ticking over in this league. What I would like to see is those that support Clough to suggest why they think he is the man to get the club out of this league and into the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Two or three sets of three inches and we'd be sitting here in the next round of the cup and with 4 points from two games. That's what drives me mental about it all. These posters who come out and say we're doomed and NC is a clown. Honestly, take a step back and think about what you're saying. Even if Theo blazes his penalty over the bar and it takes them 40 seconds to get it back our whole season has a different outlook. We win, we're through, we're flying and we do it in 90 minutes. Of course it's NC's fault, he must have told Theo to throw a shimmy in. He MUST have told Jeff to hold on to it. He must have told Mason to hit the post last night as well and then mason needed to be so good that he looked like he was trying to score.... NC is deliberately trying to get the players to do these little things just so he can bully them later on. Football sometimes comes down to very individual moments. So far we've been a bit unlucky with those moments. Nothing more nothing less than that. I completely understand where your coming from, it comes down to moments like these but when you see a teams tactics and mentality change completely from one half to the next, you've got to look at the manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Because you're overly critical of the things I love, you have an incredibly short term outlook and a real knee jerk reaction posting style and above else because you're wrong. He's wrong because he disagrees with you? What's wrong with you today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 PBW you cannot nitpick at little events like this.. We've scored ffrom about 6 set-pieces already this season, what happens if one of these gets diverted or deflected away.. What happens if Tyson balloons his shot over the bar.. No-one can say we've been unlucky in parts that have cost us without admitting perhaps we've been fortunate in others.. It was the same last season with comments regarding unlucky defeats being the reason why we didn't make the playoffs, yet totally disregarding the X amount of lucky wins we had.. So far as I see it NC has to take a massive share of the blame for all 3 games.. It's no coincidence that as Duracell mentioned we're unbeaten in first half displays but have lost all our second halves this season.. What exactly is NC telling them at HT? I bet it's something along the lines of 'what we have at 70 minutes we protect' whether that's a win or a point.. And just as EKR has said, we're not going to go down so why not try and create a winning mentality rather than a hard to beat mentality.. They're completely different, one tries to win late on, the other tries to protect what they have.. I've mentioned before but I'd feel cheated paying money to watch an away game knowing that at 70 minutes my team has given up trying to wi the game.. Of course I can Bris and I need to. The reasons we lost are down to nitpick moments surely? While others are saying we would have won if we hadn't have made the changes we made, I'm saying we could have won if we hadn't made the individual decisions that we made. Seriously, it's such tiny margins that I'm not worried in the slightest. I have no gripe with people sayign we haven't started as well as we could and I have no gripe with those who point to the managers substitutions as cositng us points. I have a gripe with the idiots saying again clough out and with the idiots again saying he's a poor man manager cos he drops a player. If Theo ***** his penalty like he should have, we go through and his tactics work. The miss isn't down to the manager, if theo scores it's game over. If Jeff boots it we likely win 2-1 and it's all irrelevant. That isn't down to the manager, if jeff gets rid the substitutions get us three points and his tactics work. If Mason rolls it three inches the other side of the post last night we get a point and his tactics work. That's what I mean, because none of those 3 happened suddenly EVERYTHING is wrong and he's a clown again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 He's wrong because he disagrees with you? What's wrong with you today? I didn't say that. He's not wrong becasue he disagrees with me. he's wrong because he judges our manager and team as poor after 3 games. In fact he could even be right that they are poor. He's wrong because it's too early for ANYONE to know and i think it's a disgrace that the team or the manager should be under this much scrutiny after two league games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I didn't say that. He's not wrong becasue he disagrees with me. he's wrong because he judges our manager and team as poor after 3 games. In fact he could even be right that they are poor. He's wrong because it's too early for ANYONE to know and i think it's a disgrace that the team or the manager should be under this much scrutiny after two league games. when did i say they were poor ive said some dogy subs or decisions have been made i never said we were poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Of course I can Bris and I need to. The reasons we lost are down to nitpick moments surely? While others are saying we would have won if we hadn't have made the changes we made, I'm saying we could have won if we hadn't made the individual decisions that we made. Seriously, it's such tiny margins that I'm not worried in the slightest. I have no gripe with people sayign we haven't started as well as we could and I have no gripe with those who point to the managers substitutions as cositng us points. I have a gripe with the idiots saying again clough out and with the idiots again saying he's a poor man manager cos he drops a player. If Theo ***** his penalty like he should have, we go through and his tactics work. The miss isn't down to the manager, if theo scores it's game over. If Jeff boots it we likely win 2-1 and it's all irrelevant. That isn't down to the manager, if jeff gets rid the substitutions get us three points and his tactics work. If Mason rolls it three inches the other side of the post last night we get a point and his tactics work. That's what I mean, because none of those 3 happened suddenly EVERYTHING is wrong and he's a clown again? I try to look at the bigger picture rather than little incidents to deem whether a manager has made tactical changes to his benefit.. Theo could have scored the penalty, Bennett could have scored rather than hitting the post etc.. But those incidents happened and it doesn't hide the fact that our second half performances have been poor in comparison to the first.. When was the last time NC made a tactical switch that actually was to our benefit? Sheff Wed fans were going on about their relentless second half and how much they improved from the first half.. But was that down to their good play or was that down to NC telling his players that 2-1 is good enough and the aim is to protect the lead.. Nitpick all you want buddy, but you know me too well, I prefer to look at the bigger picture and the bigger picture tells me that NCs attitude in the latter stages of the games is all wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Just found an interesting quote from a very well known and succesfull football manager. Can anyone guess who it is? "Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Just found an interesting quote from a very well known and succesfull football manager. Can anyone guess who it is? "Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes". Paul Jewell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 who was that was it brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 PBW you cannot nitpick at little events like this.. We've scored ffrom about 6 set-pieces already this season, what happens if one of these gets diverted or deflected away.. What happens if Tyson balloons his shot over the bar.. No-one can say we've been unlucky in parts that have cost us without admitting perhaps we've been fortunate in others.. It was the same last season with comments regarding unlucky defeats being the reason why we didn't make the playoffs, yet totally disregarding the X amount of lucky wins we had.. So far as I see it NC has to take a massive share of the blame for all 3 games.. It's no coincidence that as Duracell mentioned we're unbeaten in first half displays but have lost all our second halves this season.. What exactly is NC telling them at HT? I bet it's something along the lines of 'what we have at 70 minutes we protect' whether that's a win or a point.. And just as EKR has said, we're not going to go down so why not try and create a winning mentality rather than a hard to beat mentality.. They're completely different, one tries to win late on, the other tries to protect what they have.. I've mentioned before but I'd feel cheated paying money to watch an away game knowing that at 70 minutes my team has given up trying to wi the game.. What if they're already winning? Do you always want them to win better? Can't you see some justification for tying to hold on to a point or three? Especially when you see the reaction coming from fans when we lose one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladyram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 who was that was it brian Sorry Networker, Franco gets the cigar. Tis one of BC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Sorry Networker, Franco gets the cigar. Tis one of BC's. Damn, soo close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Just found an interesting quote from a very well known and succesfull football manager. Can anyone guess who it is? "Players lose you games, not tactics. There's so much crap talked about tactics by people who barely know how to win at dominoes". Clough... I'm vaguely curious about something so I'm throwing together something at the moment. I'm curious as to the actual drop in average age of the squad over the last few years. Rather than just an average of the age of all the players though, which can get skewed a youth player getting the odd game, I'm weighting it by appearances. Interesting results so far. The average age in 2008/09 (taking the age as it was on the 1st of August 2008) was 25 years, 11 months and 12 days. I just finished the average for 2009/10, Nigel's first full season in charge and... 26 years, 12 months and 8 days. So its a year on so of course the squad's age as a whole will go up, but its slightly more than on par with changing nothing... Hmmm... I'll finish this off and see if the difference is as dramatic as I originally thought it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Sorry Networker, Franco gets the cigar. Tis one of BC's. oh yes http://www.luxuo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/sir-winston-churchill1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDCC Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Of course I can Bris and I need to. The reasons we lost are down to nitpick moments surely? While others are saying we would have won if we hadn't have made the changes we made, I'm saying we could have won if we hadn't made the individual decisions that we made. Seriously, it's such tiny margins that I'm not worried in the slightest. I have no gripe with people sayign we haven't started as well as we could and I have no gripe with those who point to the managers substitutions as cositng us points. I have a gripe with the idiots saying again clough out and with the idiots again saying he's a poor man manager cos he drops a player. If Theo ***** his penalty like he should have, we go through and his tactics work. The miss isn't down to the manager, if theo scores it's game over. If Jeff boots it we likely win 2-1 and it's all irrelevant. That isn't down to the manager, if jeff gets rid the substitutions get us three points and his tactics work. If Mason rolls it three inches the other side of the post last night we get a point and his tactics work. That's what I mean, because none of those 3 happened suddenly EVERYTHING is wrong and he's a clown again? If Bolton and Sheffield are given the penalties they should have had then, we may have zero points and a heavy defeat last night, all if's and buts. People are angry with Clough because he sent the team out with negative mindset to have what we hold second-half last week. We had the full range kick it in corners, time-wasting, pretending to be injured and defensive subs. It helps the opposition and we are not good enough defensively to do it. There was no need Saturday for such an approach. Last night the team who went for the win got their deserts. It was a poor match, little quality and we can have no complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 why dont we just attack non stop for the whole games and make like for like subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I try to look at the bigger picture rather than little incidents to deem whether a manager has made tactical changes to his benefit.. Theo could have scored the penalty, Bennett could have scored rather than hitting the post etc.. But those incidents happened and it doesn't hide the fact that our second half performances have been poor in comparison to the first.. When was the last time NC made a tactical switch that actually was to our benefit? Sheff Wed fans were going on about their relentless second half and how much they improved from the first half.. But was that down to their good play or was that down to NC telling his players that 2-1 is good enough and the aim is to protect the lead.. Nitpick all you want buddy, but you know me too well, I prefer to look at the bigger picture and the bigger picture tells me that NCs attitude in the latter stages of the games is all wrong.. So you agree that we've got the first 75 minutes or so boxed off. Now we just need to work on the last 15. I think 75 is a bigger number than 15. So the bigger picture for me is we're doing OK overall and now we just need to cut out the individual errors, whether player or manager made. I think the manager himself even said the same thing. Something along the lines of "We're delighted with what the players are doing for 90-95% of the time" We can add NC into that if you want - I'm delighted with what he does 90-95% of the time but there is room for improvement of course. Surely that's not enough of a reason to claim he should be out of work due to ineptitude and cluelessness? By the way Bris - I'm sure you know that Dave Jones still hasn't lost a game at Sheff Wed since he took over? Not the roll them over opponents many are portraying them as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.