This is not the time to knock Clough

[Albert]

networker and PBW stop arguing honestly 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />

Yeah, this is our town...

...wait, what?

[PBW Ram]

networker and PBW stop arguing honestly 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />

When you've got so many people spouting so much ***** occasionally you need someone to come on and try to find a calming way of finding a balance.

That calming someone isn't me. It won't bother you or them in the slightest how i react, but I genuinley want to vomit when I see some of the stuff thats posted by "fans" of Derby County.

[PBW Ram]

Well he hasn't lit the championship alight has he?

Is that your answer maza? Really? that's it?

[DCFCfranco]

When you've got so many people spouting so much ***** occasionally you need someone to come on and try to find a calming way of finding a balance.

That calming someone isn't me. It won't bother you or them in the slightest how i react, but I genuinley want to vomit when I see some of the stuff thats posted by "fans" of Derby County.

did someone wake up on the wrong side of bed this morning?

[Ash]

What are you basing that on IRam? how have you worked out he'd do ok in league two but wouldn't be good enough for the championship or league one?

I just think his tactics, management skills, transfer policies, work effort and scouting would be well suited to that level. When I listen to Gary Rowett on RD he's learning his trade and will hopefully rise up the leagues, picking up experiences as he goes. Clough hasn't done this and I think it's affected his development as a manager/ coach. Some managers can make the step up without this but I just don't see any improvement in Nigels all round managerial ability to convince me he's up to this standard.

[PBW Ram]

What do you think a league two manager does that's different to a championship manager and why do you think he'd be better at that level than he is this?

[DCFCfranco]

I just think his tactics, management skills, transfer policies, work effort and scouting would be well suited to that level. When I listen to Gary Rowett on RD he's learning his trade and will hopefully rise up the leagues, picking up experiences as he goes. Clough hasn't done this and I think it's affected his development as a manager/ coach. Some managers can make the step up without this but I just don't see any improvement in Nigels all round managerial ability to convince me he's up to this standard.

so you think clough made too large a jump too early in his career?

[PBW Ram]

did someone wake up on the wrong side of bed this morning?

No - it started last night on match chat, I usually manage to avoid things like that by either being at the game or having ramsplayer. I genuinely dislike the average modern day football fan and his mentality of attacking the club or the team or the staff of the club he's supposed to love.

[DCFCfranco]

No - it started last night on match chat, I usually manage to avoid things like that by either being at the game or having ramsplayer. I genuinely dislike the average modern day football fan and his mentality of attacking the club or the team or the staff of the club he's supposed to love.

i love my team so why did you have a pop at me?

[ariotofmyown]

I really appreciate all that Clough has done for us but it's painfully obvious he can't take us to the next level. I was expecting us to kick on after his first full season but it's not happened and we're flat-lining as a club. No club has a divine right to push up the leagues but we're in danger of becoming a forgotten club. We are no better than Palace, Barnsley and Bristol and it pains me to see it.

"but it's painfully obvious he can't take us to the next level" of course, you would also be posting rubbish stuff like this if sheff wed hadn't scored a late equaliser and mason hadn't hit the post.

[PBW Ram]

i love my team so why did you have a pop at me?

Because you're overly critical of the things I love, you have an incredibly short term outlook and a real knee jerk reaction posting style and above else because you're wrong.

[DCFCfranco]

Because you're overly critical of the things I love, you have an incredibly short term outlook and a real knee jerk reaction posting style and above else because you're wrong.

what am i wrong about? and i am very critical of my team because i love them and am passionate them.

[Ash]

What do you think a league two manager does that's different to a championship manager and why do you think he'd be better at that level than he is this?

I'm just saying I believe he's out of his depth at this level. If you look at successful Championship managers like Moyes, McDermott, Adkins, Lambert, Martinez, Rogers etc they play a brand of football which is succesful in getting out this league. Clough should be aiming to get out this league (there's no point being here otherwise) but his style, for me, isn't suited at this level. I admit, there are the odd Pulis' who break the mould but it's not difficult to see how the quality of coaching differs throughout the leagues. Clough isn't a coach, he's a manager, I think that's the difference. I think Clough's style would get a team out of League 2 but not the Champ.

[PBW Ram]

"but it's painfully obvious he can't take us to the next level" of course, you would also be posting rubbish stuff like this if sheff wed hadn't scored a late equaliser and mason hadn't hit the post.

Two or three sets of three inches and we'd be sitting here in the next round of the cup and with 4 points from two games.

That's what drives me mental about it all. These posters who come out and say we're doomed and NC is a clown. Honestly, take a step back and think about what you're saying.

Even if Theo blazes his penalty over the bar and it takes them 40 seconds to get it back our whole season has a different outlook. We win, we're through, we're flying and we do it in 90 minutes.

Of course it's NC's fault, he must have told Theo to throw a shimmy in. He MUST have told Jeff to hold on to it. He must have told Mason to hit the post last night as well and then mason needed to be so good that he looked like he was trying to score....

NC is deliberately trying to get the players to do these little things just so he can bully them later on.

Football sometimes comes down to very individual moments. So far we've been a bit unlucky with those moments. Nothing more nothing less than that.

[Ash]

so you think clough made too large a jump too early in his career?

I don't think you can make the jump too early if your willing to learn from your mistakes and are prepared to alter to your surroundings (ie the Championship is different to the Blue Square) Clough hasn't done that enough for me in his 3.5+ years in charge.

[Ash]

"but it's painfully obvious he can't take us to the next level" of course, you would also be posting rubbish stuff like this if sheff wed hadn't scored a late equaliser and mason hadn't hit the post.

Well of course I wouldn't be venting my frustrations to this extent but even if we'd won two games i still don't believe he can take us to the next level, no.

[Albert]

I'm just saying I believe he's out of his depth at this level. If you look at successful Championship managers like Moyes, McDermott, Adkins, Lambert, Martinez, Rogers etc they play a brand of football which is succesful in getting out this league. Clough should be aiming to get out this league (there's no point being here otherwise) but his style, for me, isn't suited at this level. I admit, there are the odd Pulis' who break the mould but it's not difficult to see how the quality of coaching differs throughout the leagues. Clough isn't a coach, he's a manager, I think that's the difference. I think Clough's style would get a team out of League 2 but not the Champ.

How many managers get out of this division without significant backing? Think about that, then add in, how many managers get out of this division whilst bringing down the wage bill at a fairly decent rate.

[networker1884]

I read it. That's you being one of those people leaning towards the clough out "brigade"

Have a look at what you've written on different topics today and stop wasting my time...

You can't even make your own mind up.

Excuse me. But you're the one making the accusations here. Maybe I tricked you, or maybe you're just tired and can't understand me atm. But not once have I said that Clough should leave. Not once have I believed it. I considered it, thought about it, and I questioned everybody that said he should, and also those who said he shouldn't. Why? So I could get a grasp on their views, so I could make an informed decision. Maybe that confused you, but don't tell me what I'm thinking, don't tell me that I'm confused just because you can't understand my reasoning, and one more thing, don't tell me to 'stop wasting your time', when all I'm doing is protecting myself from your accusations.

[Ash]

How many managers get out of this division without significant backing? Think about that, then add in, how many managers get out of this division whilst bringing down the wage bill at a fairly decent rate.

Holloway? But that was an exception. The wage bill is sorted now, lets move on from that as an excuse please. Now is Clough's time to shine, his team, his wage structure. I'm not asking us to get promoted, I just want Clough to show he can perform at this level and improve on last season.

[Bris Vegas]

Two or three sets of three inches and we'd be sitting here in the next round of the cup and with 4 points from two games.

That's what drives me mental about it all. These posters who come out and say we're doomed and NC is a clown. Honestly, take a step back and think about what you're saying.

Even if Theo blazes his penalty over the bar and it takes them 40 seconds to get it back our whole season has a different outlook. We win, we're through, we're flying and we do it in 90 minutes.

Of course it's NC's fault, he must have told Theo to throw a shimmy in. He MUST have told Jeff to hold on to it. He must have told Mason to hit the post last night as well and then mason needed to be so good that he looked like he was trying to score....

NC is deliberately trying to get the players to do these little things just so he can bully them later on.

Football sometimes comes down to very individual moments. So far we've been a bit unlucky with those moments. Nothing more nothing less than that.

PBW you cannot nitpick at little events like this.. We've scored ffrom about 6 set-pieces already this season, what happens if one of these gets diverted or deflected away.. What happens if Tyson balloons his shot over the bar..

No-one can say we've been unlucky in parts that have cost us without admitting perhaps we've been fortunate in others.. It was the same last season with comments regarding unlucky defeats being the reason why we didn't make the playoffs, yet totally disregarding the X amount of lucky wins we had..

So far as I see it NC has to take a massive share of the blame for all 3 games.. It's no coincidence that as Duracell mentioned we're unbeaten in first half displays but have lost all our second halves this season.. What exactly is NC telling them at HT? I bet it's something along the lines of 'what we have at 70 minutes we protect' whether that's a win or a point..

And just as EKR has said, we're not going to go down so why not try and create a winning mentality rather than a hard to beat mentality.. They're completely different, one tries to win late on, the other tries to protect what they have.. I've mentioned before but I'd feel cheated paying money to watch an away game knowing that at 70 minutes my team has given up trying to wi the game..