Jayram Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I've never rated Clough and still don't but we shouldn't be calling for his head after 2 games. For me this is his make or break season - the squad is completely his now and he has had more to spend this summer than any time since he arrived. He deserves to be given the season to show what he can do. I suspect that we will do nothing and finish nowhere near the top 10, and if that's the case I would expect the board to seriously consider Clough's position, but until then we have to give him this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I understand your fustration, given that we won't go down and haven't for the past 3 years or so.. But I'd hardly call some people and myself included a buffoon for having doubts and pointing out basic errors that NC does as a manager.. Those that say he doesn't know how to play winning football have a valid point.. He has something like a 30% win record, that's 70% of our games that we either draw or lose.. We're yet to have a season where we've won more than we've lost and have yet to progress from the first round of the league cup (if you want to be picky) Just because he hasn't taken us down doesn't mean he's done a great job.. There is no one or the other, success and failure have wider margins.. You're right in one context though.. We do have a better squad now than we've had for the past 4 seasons.. NC has done that, he's made the changes and improved us as a squad.. But, and heres the key point.. What happens if our league position doesn't improve? Who is to blame then? There are so many things to like about NC and his tenure here.. His team have cleaned up the acadmey, he's a Derby man and knows the fans, he's united the club under one, he and his coaching staff have brought a real structure to the club where everyone knows their roles, he has signed some decent players, he has lowered the wage bill to it's healthiest level in years etc.. But if he can't produce a winning and (importantly for me) an entertaining team then he's simply failing at the most important part of his job and the other stuff sort of becomes irrelevant.. I'm not arguing with posts like yours Bris, or with the one from Utch underneath. And before anyone tags me as a blind fiather they should read my comments on both the Sheff Wed and the Ssausagehorpe game. I do think he shold have done it differently I'll also say I'm DEFINITELY not calling you a buffoon. I'm all for debating a game and for picking out pieces of it good or bad. My post isn't aimed at that type either. My post is aimed at the buffoons who have nothing to add but clough out. Sometimes his decisions baffle me. Sometimes I sit there like the rest of you and think why the eff has he done that but it's only occasionally. Some of you do it always If there a million "why the eff has he done that" posts on Saturday you wont here a squeak from me. If you have people calling him a clown and saying he should be sacked as one of the worst managers in Derby history, it's that kind of crap I hate. The number of posters who cannot find any reason to be positive is growing and I dont understand why when i look at the state the club is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey B Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I don't agree he is making bad decisions. He's working with new players give him time. You can't use working with new players as an excuse. I need to be careful how much detail I go into but Clough gets new players every summer and so far he has got rid of players that he himself has brought in. You will hear of another departure fairly soon that may shock some fans. We need to face the fact the Nigel Clough is not a good man manager, or club manager, and he is simply ruining Derby. All the fans that say "we will be ok" need to take their blinkers and see it for what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Chris Hughton managed a Newcastle side who even after cutting the wage bill was certain favourites for a quick return, and in fact, anything but an immediate return would have been considered a failure. The same could be said with his time with Birmingham where he did fail to get them up. Put bluntly, that Birmingham side should never have gone down from where they were and were still a mighty strong side on paper in this division. So no, I wouldn't count him as a success story whilst hacking and slashing the wage bill. Tony Mowbray in his time with Middlesbrough is in a more similar position to Nigel, but he and his side are still in this division. If you're referring to West Brom, that's a whole other kettle of fish. The main difference here is I still think the squad Nigel inherited was worse than the one that Mowbray got. People seem to forget what Nigel actually got when he arrived here. You asked a question I gave you an answer, maybe you want to rephrase the question again ? Something along the lines of, name a manager who has got promoted on a limited budget, whilst wage cutting, was not favourite to get promoted, and had an X in his name ? should give you the answer you are looking for 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You asked a question I gave you an answer, maybe you want to rephrase the question again ? Something along the lines of, name a manager who has got promoted on a limited budget, whilst wage cutting, was not favourite to get promoted, and had an X in his name ? should give you the answer you are looking for 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> You're right, you did answer the question. I was looking for similar circumstances though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Davey, you've been dropping little bombs like that since you started posting. You've got to be careful about how much detail you go into? why? you're not ecactly hiding the fact that you get your info from one of the young players, however closely linked to him you are. I really wonder what Stefan would think if he knew you were on here. Do you want me to go and find you 100 examples of players signing for a club under a manager and then that manager selling him? I reckon I could find 100 who havent lasted a year. I can find you at least 10 that the greatest manager england never had made. David Currie for example signed for 750k when 750k was a lot of money. He was asked if he had bought a house in the area yet and when he answered no his boss told him not to bother looking for one cos he's he wouldn't be around much longer. 3 or 4 games into his big move. IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE DRESSING ROOM It happens at every club in the league, it is nothing out of the ordinary. The modern fanny fan. Does my head in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I don't see how anyone can have a debate if people pigeonhole the other side of the aegument. You can support Clough whilst not being a "happy-clapper", pointing out his errors, and feeling disappointed with certain results. You can also not support Clough, whilst giving credit where it is due, not believing he will take us down, giving him your full support on match day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You can't use working with new players as an excuse. I need to be careful how much detail I go into but Clough gets new players every summer and so far he has got rid of players that he himself has brought in. You will hear of another departure fairly soon that may shock some fans. We need to face the fact the Nigel Clough is not a good man manager, or club manager, and he is simply ruining Derby. All the fans that say "we will be ok" need to take their blinkers and see it for what it is... If he is trying to ruin it, he's doing no where near as good a job as John Gregory, Paul Jewell, Phil Brown and the three amigos. Now they knew how to ruin a football club! All failed to do it properly but they got us so close, yet so far, to the third tier. And Jewell had the budget to do it and still failed. Clough probably has the smallest budget of all of the three I mentioned above, and that shows because he's the furthest from getting us relegated out of all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Wow! This site is getting heavy! Just to lighten things up a bit, here's what I put on the Wolves match forum earlier! The season's far from over In fact it's just begun Yet having one point out of six Is anything but fun. Yet I recall long years ago in 1969 We had a start so terrible Clough's job was on the line. "We're going down" The pundit's said This team's not going to gel We've made too many changes And it's just not going well. The experts sang a different song When August turned to May "As champions we're going up And Brian Clough can stay!" With Peter Taylor helping him They built a super team, And Hist'ry can repeat itself, At least we all can dream! We all have strengths and failings too And face life's traffic jams So get behind the Derby team And yell COME ON YER RAMS!!!! (Headline in August 1970 "Relegation start, promotion finish"....sound familiar?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey B Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Davey, you've been dropping little bombs like that since you started posting. You've got to be careful about how much detail you go into? why? you're not ecactly hiding the fact that you get your info from one of the young players, however closely linked to him you are. I really wonder what Stefan would think if he knew you were on here. Do you want me to go and find you 100 examples of players signing for a club under a manager and then that manager selling him? I reckon I could find 100 who havent lasted a year. I can find you at least 10 that the greatest manager england never had made. David Currie for example signed for 750k when 750k was a lot of money. He was asked if he had bought a house in the area yet and when he answered no his boss told him not to bother looking for one cos he's he wouldn't be around much longer. 3 or 4 games into his big move. IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE DRESSING ROOM It happens at every club in the league, it is nothing out of the ordinary. The modern fanny fan. Does my head in. All because I have commented on a player does not mean that I know them personally. I base my comments on other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 All because I have commented on a player does not mean that I know them personally. I base my comments on other factors. Who is leaving that we will be surprised about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If he is trying to ruin it, he's doing no where near as good a job as John Gregory, Paul Jewell, Phil Brown and the three amigos. Now they knew how to ruin a football club! All failed to do it properly but they got us so close, yet so far, to the third tier. And Jewell had the budget to do it and still failed. Clough probably has the smallest budget of all of the three I mentioned above, and that shows because he's the furthest from getting us relegated out of all of them. Ruin Derby? Just be glad of you are too young to remember a certain Robert Maxwell. IMHO Nigel is probably the most Rams centric manager we have ever had, and that even takes into account the best manager England never had! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Ruin Derby? Just be glad of you are too young to remember a certain Robert Maxwell. IMHO Nigel is probably the most Rams centric manager we have ever had, and that even takes into account the best manager England never had! Maxwell is an interesting figure. I've read a lot about it, and he was a borderline evil man thcaused unspeakable things, many to this club. But would we exist without him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Maxwell is an interesting figure. I've read a lot about it, and he was a borderline evil man thcaused unspeakable things, many to this club. But would we exist without him? In a word, yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 In a word, yes! No! I don't want a word! Tell me more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malagaram Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 All this talk of getting rid of Clough but who will you replace him with,is it possible to clone Shankly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 All this talk of getting rid of Clough but who will you replace him with,is it possible to clone Shankly If we were going down the cloning route, then surely t'would be Clough the Elder..... Re Maxwell, Bunny's probably right. We were on the brink when Maxwell came in. I doubt Stuart Webb would have had the time to find anyone else had Cap'n Bob said no. This was back in the days before administration, a time when clubs didn't often come back from where we were headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'd love Nigel to be successful with us, I'm relatively pleased with what he's achieved up to now given the constraints he's being asked to work under, I just wonder if he is breeding a kind of panic throughout the team when it comes to our inability to see out a lot of games without conceding late on. I want him to telling the players "WE ARE DERBY, now go out there, express yourself, enjoy yourself and create problems for them" Whereas I actually think he's sending them out more with a too cautious mentality, maybe even worried to death about making a mistake that costs us, who knows, but just an extra drop of positivity and the occasional throwing caution to the wind would do for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardRam Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I love derby so much and every year i go to see the rams. I hope and pray that could this be are year? But then I'm disappointed as usually. Sometimes I hate the Borad for bad investment and limiting nigels money to want in the footballing world today in simply pounds and pence and rubbish players. Like players Paul coutts etc.... Or is Nigel a bad manager and he's not the right guy to take Derby forward? I'm unsure will he last this season? I love derby but I really can't see them even staying in the championship! And this year were proberly going to filrt with the relagtion zone? Never mind about mid table! Or a mixture of both!? Maybe there all a load of ****!? And Derby is really screwed! What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JW- Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Jesus Christ, another thread, i can't take it anymore. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':mellow:' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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