Nigel or The Board?

[Jayram]

Both are equally culpable. The day Clough and GSE are gone from our club will be the day we finally move forward. Until then we are going nowhere except down the pan. Absolute disgrace.

[Mary Hindge]

Bad news always brings out my favourite WUM's and some new ones!

[Martyn]

WOT?? ALL THAT SUMS AND STUFF?? WOULD YOU COPE?

this is my job this is what i do everyday

Is that before or after P.E.? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />

[-JW-]

I blame Shackell.

[McRamFan]

Neither, nothing has been done to put our league status at risk, the transfer window doesn't close until 31st Aug, banks have not forclosed on any loans, the baliffs have not repossessed PP, they haven't sold Moor Farm to Barretts.

[smiffy]

He's operating on a zero budget.

He's also probably been told that there's no room in the wage budget even with a number of players going.

Left with that, the only way to bring players in to shore up any gaps is to sell. Shackell was probably our more sellable asset.

At least by selling now we have over a month to bring players in.

He is a yes man, simple.

[davenportram]

Not a bad gift! He looked great at Blackpool in the PL and scored some good goals. Pompey will sell anyone now, so why not look at him? Oh yes, i remember now Clough doesn't rate him thats why!!!!!!

I think NC does an okay job bearing in mind he has awful leaders and always has his dads shadow over him. Which must be a form of pressure in itself!

Please please prove us wrong NC and start the season of well.

Varney looked good in about 4 games for Blackpool - that's why he got dropped and Holloway didn't buy him in January

[SillyBilly]

As the dust settled, I explained our situation. Our income is ridiclous, we have a budget which is said to be a neutral one, which means we're going to make roughly a 5/6million pound loss this season. I think people do not appreciate this and consider it small but there are a lot other teams making less investment than we're but they have income from player sales (like burnley) or have parachute payments (like blackburn)

We have a team, on a budget and no other form of investment (even leicester are selling before they buy this season) so we've got to make adjustments to improve the team, clough needs to improve the team by changing the team which he is going about, only time will tell if he is right, will have to take gambles and will have to try and turn 1 good player into 2, and work on maximising our budget.

I would of perhaps done things differently in this situation as other people would, but some people don't understand how difficult it is to get teams to part with their money, some of the figures people suggest for our fringe players is laughable. I was hearing 500k for Maguire, 300k for Addison...etc just doesn't happen like that, we need to act quickly and efficiently.

I believed that when we accepted that bid for Shackell it's because we already had something in the pipeline that we wanted to complete quickly, only a hunch but suppose we'll have to wait and see.

I don't think, for the most part, anyone is disputing the above. There is a clear reason (in my mind) as to why since GSE have taken over press releases, either by TG or AA, have been in exponential decline year-on-year. We couldn't shut them up at first. It is because they've made too many false promises and their words on paper look embarrassing when read back.

Everything from the "global brand" to AA's recent "top 6 push" is just antagonising. We finished equidistant from the bottom 6 last year as we did to the top 6 and it was obvious quality was needed to bridge the gap. It is becoming irritating to me at least, to hear the club making ridiculous aims (particularly at ST renewal time) then seemingly showing no intent other than to hope Nigel pulls a rabbit out of the hat. Intent isn't selling your best player and hoping to get 2 good players out of the fee. That is hope. Intent is retaining and building. If you don't have the financial clout to do so then lower the ambition. Don't say, like last year, we're in for a top goal scorer and a midfield maestro and end up with neither.

Reality check is we have no budget to speak of other than raised monies from transfers. We run a very low wage structure for the league we play in. To improve, our saleable assets will have to be sold and we will have to use that money to gamble on players with the potential to be as good or better. We can't afford established players- that is clear. We are in no position to turn down a "good" or even "acceptable" offer for a player, the money is needed for Clough's kitty. The board aren't backing Nigel, they are plugging the bucket each year in desperation. The plan doesn't add up and FFP isn't going to turn us into playoff contenders.

The owners don't want to be involved anymore. They thought you could make a profit in football, they were wrong. They didn't realise football fans aren't appreciative of having billionaire owners simply "prop" the club up. There are too many owners in it for the love of football, success and an ego trip for our model to, at least for now, bare any fruit.

[uttoxram75]

I reckon that's pretty much bang on SB.

[uttoxram75]

He is a yes man, simple.

I don't see it that way smiffy.

He took the job, well the new contract anyway, under no illusions about the budget so it would be pointless him having a go (publically) at the board.

Clough must believe he can do it with the financial restrictions he's working under.

That doesn't make him a yes man. If anything I would say he has great belief in his own ability.

[Duffield Ram]

SB - Put your name forward for the board please. Great post speaking common sense and facts!!!!

[BOB BIGGS]

I don't think, for the most part, anyone is disputing the above. There is a clear reason (in my mind) as to why since GSE have taken over press releases, either by TG or AA, have been in exponential decline year-on-year. We couldn't shut them up at first. It is because they've made too many false promises and their words on paper look embarrassing when read back.

Everything from the "global brand" to AA's recent "top 6 push" is just antagonising. We finished equidistant from the bottom 6 last year as we did to the top 6 and it was obvious quality was needed to bridge the gap. It is becoming irritating to me at least, to hear the club making ridiculous aims (particularly at ST renewal time) then seemingly showing no intent other than to hope Nigel pulls a rabbit out of the hat. Intent isn't selling your best player and hoping to get 2 good players out of the fee. That is hope. Intent is retaining and building. If you don't have the financial clout to do so then lower the ambition. Don't say, like last year, we're in for a top goal scorer and a midfield maestro and end up with neither.

Reality check is we have no budget to speak of other than raised monies from transfers. We run a very low wage structure for the league we play in. To improve, our saleable assets will have to be sold and we will have to use that money to gamble on players with the potential to be as good or better. We can't afford established players- that is clear. We are in no position to turn down a "good" or even "acceptable" offer for a player, the money is needed for Clough's kitty. The board aren't backing Nigel, they are plugging the bucket each year in desperation. The plan doesn't add up and FFP isn't going to turn us into playoff contenders.

The owners don't want to be involved anymore. They thought you could make a profit in football, they were wrong. They didn't realise football fans aren't appreciative of having billionaire owners simply "prop" the club up. There are too many owners in it for the love of football, success and an ego trip for our model to, at least for now, bare any fruit.

That's about as good as I've read for a long time. Why people want to back the Board/Owners and not Clough is beyond me.So many anti-Clough folks are caught up in this "Clough's Son" business. I suppose it suits their argument and that's for them to rattle on about. However, I stand by what I've said for a long time. I think Clough is doing a decent job in almost impossible circumstances. There's no way that he would have wanted to sell Shackell but he has little choice if he wants to bring others in. That's not blind "Daddy's Boy" stuff from me, just a subjective view on his current lot in life.

Yes, it's time for the present Board and Owners to say goodbye. But... they can't sell so they're going nowhere. So, we're going nowhere as a team unless Clough keeps on selling his best players. He's bound to get sick of it sometime. Then what?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

this is my job this is what i do everyday

I'd stick at it as well mate cause you're no football manager. Do you really think Shackell is as good as all that? How many goals did he score from corners? How many long raking passes sailed out of play? How many short passes went behind the intended player? He wasn't bad but he also isn't anything to rave about. Are you still expecting someone to "invest" (which really means potentially give away) millions of pounds to buy another average player? Why would they? The decision is to bring on good young hungry players. Who new Mc Farland when he first arrived (befor your time I know but all you youngsters seem to know is cheque book management). If you are not a youngster then think back!

[smiffy]

I don't see it that way smiffy.

He took the job, well the new contract anyway, under no illusions about the budget so it would be pointless him having a go (public ally) at the board.

Clough must believe he can do it with the financial restrictions he's working under.

That doesn't make him a yes man. If anything I would say he has great belief in his own ability.

So why sell Shackell ?, if Clough is trying to build a team good enough to get promotion, why sell a player that is undoubtedly good enough , in a position that is absolutely vital , it to me beggars belief.

I disagree mate , if you believe what Shackell is supposed to have said about not wanting to go, and being forced out, then it is time maybe for a complete change, and there are rumours afoot of an uprising.

[kenzzo]

I'd stick at it as well mate cause you're no football manager. Do you really think Shackell is as good as all that? How many goals did he score from corners? How many long raking passes sailed out of play? How many short passes went behind the intended player? He wasn't bad but he also isn't anything to rave about. Are you still expecting someone to "invest" (which really means potentially give away) millions of pounds to buy another average player? Why would they? The decision is to bring on good young hungry players. Who new Mc Farland when he first arrived (befor your time I know but all you youngsters seem to know is cheque book management). If you are not a youngster then think back!

i did not say i ws good at football but but very very good pl profit and loss to u just want to see the book to see how much money r the yanks getting out og us that all

[Martyn]

So why sell Shackell ?, if Clough is trying to build a team good enough to get promotion, why sell a player that is undoubtedly good enough , in a position that is absolutely vital.

Easy. 'Cos Clough thinks he can use the more to get players in who will make us better overall as a team. It's not rocket science.

You obviously don't think he'll be able to do that, and he does. One things for sure, we'll find out eventually.

I'm happy to say I don't know the answer yet and therefore won't be slagging him or the board until I see what happens.

[Ambitious]

I don't think, for the most part, anyone is disputing the above. There is a clear reason (in my mind) as to why since GSE have taken over press releases, either by TG or AA, have been in exponential decline year-on-year. We couldn't shut them up at first. It is because they've made too many false promises and their words on paper look embarrassing when read back.

Everything from the "global brand" to AA's recent "top 6 push" is just antagonising. We finished equidistant from the bottom 6 last year as we did to the top 6 and it was obvious quality was needed to bridge the gap. It is becoming irritating to me at least, to hear the club making ridiculous aims (particularly at ST renewal time) then seemingly showing no intent other than to hope Nigel pulls a rabbit out of the hat. Intent isn't selling your best player and hoping to get 2 good players out of the fee. That is hope. Intent is retaining and building. If you don't have the financial clout to do so then lower the ambition. Don't say, like last year, we're in for a top goal scorer and a midfield maestro and end up with neither.

Reality check is we have no budget to speak of other than raised monies from transfers. We run a very low wage structure for the league we play in. To improve, our saleable assets will have to be sold and we will have to use that money to gamble on players with the potential to be as good or better. We can't afford established players- that is clear. We are in no position to turn down a "good" or even "acceptable" offer for a player, the money is needed for Clough's kitty. The board aren't backing Nigel, they are plugging the bucket each year in desperation. The plan doesn't add up and FFP isn't going to turn us into playoff contenders.

The owners don't want to be involved anymore. They thought you could make a profit in football, they were wrong. They didn't realise football fans aren't appreciative of having billionaire owners simply "prop" the club up. There are too many owners in it for the love of football, success and an ego trip for our model to, at least for now, bare any fruit.

I disagree with that last part, unfortunately their method of running a football team on a profit is by cost cutting and doing everything and anything possible to bring in outside revenue for instance the plaza and big score board. They want us running on profits, as this will without a shadow of a doubt help their 'sports management' company as running a club on a profit is near on impossible.

I think given another 2 or 3 years, our highest earner will be on 4k - they're not very ambitious about on the field matters and show little interest but off the field matters like what you'd expect a business to be run like, they're full of ideas and enthusiasm.

I think if they didn't want to be here any more, we would feel that effect with raised ticket prices, no investment anywhere for instance the big screen, and plaza...etc I just feel they aren't concerning themselves with footballing side too much, but more of the business side.

[PrivateDerby]

Right listen up rams fans,

If I win the 42,000,000 tonight, expect a PD press release 09:00 on Monday morning. I'll see us right.

I'll be on the 'player suggestions thread' with Cloughie from 13:00 onwards.

[smiffy]

Easy. 'Cos Clough thinks he can use the more to get players in who will make us better overall as a team. It's not rocket science.

You obviously don't think he'll be able to do that, and he does. One things for sure, we'll find out eventually.

I'm happy to say I don't know the answer yet and therefore won't be slagging him or the board until I see what happens.

If something is not broken don't fix it, thats the adage that matters, so if the next players he signs fail, we start again, then again and again

Others may think different, fine its all opinions, but in mine, at the present time we do not have a first choice , good enough , championship promotion chasing , central defender[size=6].[/size]

[size=3]We did have, but we have just sold him.[/size]

[SillyBilly]

I disagree with that last part, unfortunately their method of running a football team on a profit is by cost cutting and doing everything and anything possible to bring in outside revenue for instance the plaza and big score board. They want us running on profits, as this will without a shadow of a doubt help their 'sports management' company as running a club on a profit is near on impossible.

I think given another 2 or 3 years, our highest earner will be on 4k - they're not very ambitious about on the field matters and show little interest but off the field matters like what you'd expect a business to be run like, they're full of ideas and enthusiasm.

I think if they didn't want to be here any more, we would feel that effect with raised ticket prices, no investment anywhere for instance the big screen, and plaza...etc I just feel they aren't concerning themselves with footballing side too much, but more of the business side.

I think they're lumped with a business they can't sell personally. It has no value to outside investors in this climate (it makes a considerable loss each year) and they don't have the stomach to risk anymore investment to realise a higher price (upon promotion). The solution, short to medium term is therefore to balance the books whilst maintaining our position in this league. I credit these people as highly astute businessmen, I don't think waning interest would coincide with alienating the fan base with increased tariffs or an abrupt stop to developing other revenue streams, quite the contrary actually. Why would they be stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot and lower the price they could fetch for the club by doing so? Everything I've seen so far suggests they know how to make the best of what they've got. Unfortunately in football, where everybody else is content to run at large losses its not enough. They have failed so far and they are now minimising risk which is a risky game in itself. Their plan C seems to be to change the culture of English football to suit our NEW stratergy, you've got to give it to them, they're tenacious. I'm starting to wish they'd just f**k off and be the pioneers at another club. We could then jump on the bandwagon when such a time comes.