Nigel or The Board?

[Guest]

So Clough would have sold him if he didn't have to YR?

Your question is based on the premise that he had to sell him which you have no evidence for. Again is there any proof that Clough was coerced into selling Jason Shackell? or is it the standard football practice that the manager decided to sell a star player to enahnce his squad in other areas to strengthen it overall. If you cannot answer my question please stop asking me poorly put mundane questions.

[AndyB]

There's no need for that YR.

Clough was coerced into selling Shackell by his budget not allowing him to strengthen the squad without selling him. I think we all know that so why keep asking for evidence? What more evidence is needed?

[Guest]

There's no need for that YR.

Clough was coerced into selling Shackell by his budget not allowing him to strengthen the squad without selling him. I think we all know that so why keep asking for evidence? What more evidence is needed?

That is not coerced AndyB. That is clough making a choice to let shackell go in order to improve the team, rather than sticking with what he has and hope that the team gelling and improving would be enough. Clough being forced to sell Shackell would be either the board going over his head and accepting the bid or threatening to fire him if he didn't sell him. Clough could have sold fringe players like Tyson, Bdavies, Buxton etc to improve the team by a couple of players. He chose to sell Shackell to improve the team overall in his view, that is hardly coercion in any sense of the word.

So you have produced no evidence that clough was forced to sell him.

[Stedcfc]

The problem with our current situation is that we are going through a long rebuilding stage. The problem is the initial cash injection on players that the board provided was wasted in the space of 3 transfer windows by Paul Jewell as he was seemingly allowed to splash money as he pleased whilst only a Tom Glick completely new to football was there to assist. This undid any financial progress made as a result of promotion to the premier league as a considerable amount of cash was wasted on players and wages. The only people likely to of benefitted financially from Derbys promotion to the premiership are Gadbsy & Co (and Claude Davis).

From here the parachute payment money was spent sacking Paul Jewell which in itself would of been expensive and the failed players he purchased. A terrible season resulted in all our players losing almost all of their value. Not only this but players likely to allow us to regain promotion (the likes of Howard, Earnshaw, Oakley and Jones) were flogged also.

The board obviously now lack the funding to supply any kind of investment to the playing team. I believe last seasons spending will of involved considerable pleading from Clough and Glick to the board after the demonstrations by fans the previous season. Whilst the board aren't investing in the team they do seem to be improving the club as a company. They are investing in increasing revenue and the general infrastructure of the club, unfortunately not the team.

The reality of it is that this board genuinely seem to believe that FFP will result in us gaining a substantial advantage and this is their best chance of recouping their losses. The best thing that could possibly happen is that the FFP is delayed or scrapped resulting in them being able to cover losses for the seasons until it begins. Although our club are not in any way being mismanaged and if anything are being extremely well managed on the operation side of things. This in reality provides for a terribly boring time for the fans as whilst the board believe a promotion is possible with the current investment level in the team, things are likely to continue as they are.

[AndyB]

I'm not aware any of our other players were attracting bids of over £1m though so I guess he didn't have a lot of choice?

[Guest]

I'm not aware any of our other players were attracting bids of over £1m though so I guess he didn't have a lot of choice?

I give up, as a famous man once stated " you cannot argue with a man who cannot use basic reason"

[uttoxram75]

So why sell Shackell ?, if Clough is trying to build a team good enough to get promotion, why sell a player that is undoubtedly good enough , in a position that is absolutely vital , it to me beggars belief.

I disagree mate , if you believe what Shackell is supposed to have said about not wanting to go, and being forced out, then it is time maybe for a complete change, and there are rumours afoot of an uprising.

Said in the Shackell thread that we shunt have sold him, not with Barker out. Poor decision imo.

I was looking more at your comment of Clough being a yes man, I really don't think he is.

Rumours afoot of an uprising? RPG? Yes, heard a few mutterings....I think its gaining momentum. A bad start to the season and it may well turn into another eventful chapter in Derby's colourful history.

[AndyB]

Again there's no need for that YR.

Clearly we differ in our views but if that's you done for the time being then I thank you for the debate. At least we can agree on Forest, **** 'em!

[Guest]

Again there's no need for that YR.

Clearly we differ in our views but if that's you done for the time being then I thank you for the debate. At least we can agree on Forest, **** 'em!

There really is I am sorry to say, because you do not understand what the word forced actually means and you keep saying the same thing over and over despite the fact that there is no evidence Nigel Clough was forced into a sale by anyone. There is a difference beween making a decision of sticking or twisting with your squad and Nigel made that decision when selling Shackell. However at least we can agree on forest and I wish you the best 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

[Stedcfc]

I give up, as a famous man once stated " you cannot argue with a man who cannot use basic reason"

YR just out of interest if you were put in Cloughs situation - You need your net spend this summer to be nil. Paul green is leaving and Steve Davies has handed in a transfer request and you need to improve on last years league table finish. Then what would your plan be? Who would you sell?

[AndyB]

You say he had a choice, I say he didn't. Agree to disagree and move on.

[Guest]

YR just out of interest if you were put in Cloughs situation - You need your net spend this summer to be nil. Paul green is leaving and Steve Davies has handed in a transfer request and you need to improve on last years league table finish. Then what would your plan be? Who would you sell?

I would sell Tyson, BDavies, SDavies,possibly Ball and one of the reserve keepers to start with along with Doyle. I would loan a left backfor cover, keep Bailey to cover center mid and bring in a striker with a loan for center back or a cheap find. Maybe try and negotiate a wage reduction with a transfer increase? We did lack goals last year so a striker would be a priority. However I am not the manager of Derby County for a good reason, I am simply stating that Nigel Clough wasn't coerced into selling a player. Also give Bennet and Hughes playing time. Lets say I gather 1.3 million from those sales and only loan Ball, I would spend 800k on a striker, nothing for the loan except wages and 500k on a center back to fill in. With Hughes coming in as cover for anyone on a flank I think that would be a solid team.

[Stedcfc]

I would sell Tyson, BDavies, SDavies,possibly Ball and one of the reserve keepers to start with along with Doyle. I would loan a left backfor cover, keep Bailey to cover center mid and bring in a striker with a loan for center back or a cheap find. Maybe try and negotiate a wage reduction with a transfer increase? We did lack goals last year so a striker would be a priority. However I am not the manager of Derby County for a good reason, I am simply stating that Nigel Clough wasn't coerced into selling a player. Also give Bennet and Hughes playing time.

No i know just wondered what your opinion was. I think its safe to say thats pretty much the safe option, we've got a young squad which should improve and at a guess if we were to do that we would possibly finish mid table again. Other than what you've said we'd probably have to buy a winger too as if we sold 3 strikers and got 1 in Ward would play up front more often leaving only Hughes and Jacobs assuming you'd get him as Clough has.

I'm sure Clough has considered taking a safe option but has probably thought why don't we sell off a player likely to attract a high price and gamble on a cheaper left back so he can get the expensive striker he's needed for ages. Obviously a massive gamble. But if he did what you suggested I can't see that we'd make much progress with the league continuing to get harder next year.

[AndyB]

I don't think we would get much for Tyson, Bavies, Savies, Ball, Doyle and Deeney? Some off the wages but not a lot in transfer fees.

[Guest]

I don't think we would get much for Tyson, Bavies, Savies, Ball, Doyle and Deeney? Some off the wages but not a lot in transfer fees.

250k for tyson, 300-350k for Bdavies, 500-700k for Savies, Ball for a loan or a sell of over 400k doyle and deeney together 100k.

[Stedcfc]

Yeh 500k for Davies maybe, and maximum 500k for the rest. So assuming we did get that maximum 1mil. We'd have to replace Steve Davies which would be difficult on its own. We'd also need 1/2 wingers. Obviously if you bought Jacobs you'd only have 600k left for the striker and another winger. So we'd be unlikely to improve. Would you agree YR?

[Guest]

No i know just wondered what your opinion was. I think its safe to say thats pretty much the safe option, we've got a young squad which should improve and at a guess if we were to do that we would possibly finish mid table again. Other than what you've said we'd probably have to buy a winger too as if we sold 3 strikers and got 1 in Ward would play up front more often leaving only Hughes and Jacobs assuming you'd get him as Clough has.

I'm sure Clough has considered taking a safe option but has probably thought why don't we sell off a player likely to attract a high price and gamble on a cheaper left back so he can get the expensive striker he's needed for ages. Obviously a massive gamble. But if he did what you suggested I can't see that we'd make much progress with the league continuing to get harder next year.

Of course we wouldn't progress astronomically but I think if the squad gelled especially it being quite young with a few older heads then it could have made a few points progress with a bit of luck. We weren't looking for big progress really, however it is a valid point about the league getting more difficult. I know I wouldn't want to be in Clough's shoes that is for sure, maybe for my plan we could play a 4-2-3-1 with Robinson up front, Ward on one wing, Hughes on another and Bryson in the hole with Hendrick and Bailey in the middle.

[Stedcfc]

250k for tyson, 300-350k for Bdavies, 500-700k for Savies, Ball for a loan or a sell of over 400k doyle and deeney together 100k.

250k for tyson, 300-350k for Bdavies, 500-700k for Savies, Ball for a loan or a sell of over 400k doyle and deeney together 100k.

I really don't think Tyson would fetch 250k. BDavies was bought for 350k and is now 2 years older.. 31 he would go for 200 max. S Davies has a terrible injury record and is in the last year of his contract so again would be surprised if it was over 500k. Ball has scored 3 championship goals he would never fetch more than Maguire did.

[uttoxram75]

YR, for the sake of our sanity, Clough believes that the only way he can improve the squad is to sell Shack. Other posters have used the words "coerced", "forced" etc, but what it boils down to is one mans opinion working under a tight budget.

If it works, Clough will be feted as a top class manager, if it doesn't then we better get prepared to boo the next owners and/or manager. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

[Stedcfc]

Of course we wouldn't progress astronomically but I think if the squad gelled especially it being quite young with a few older heads then it could have made a few points progress with a bit of luck. We weren't looking for big progress really, however it is a valid point about the league getting more difficult. I know I wouldn't want to be in Clough's shoes that is for sure, maybe for my plan we could play a 4-2-3-1 with Robinson up front, Ward on one wing, Hughes on another and Bryson in the hole with Hendrick and Bailey in the middle.

That team wouldnt be too bad but with selling 6 to bring in only maybe 3 you'd leave us really short of players, we had a really small squad last year. Thats why I think selling a valuable player had to happen really. Seeing as though theres no money coming from anywhere else. That leaves us with a choice of maybe Hendrick, Brayford (at a push) Shackell or Ward who could realistically get 1m or more.