davenportram Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 DET said he is on loan until the end of the season and Clough was saying he wouldnt be coming back until the summer. I assume that it is just the Football League approval that is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What are you talking about? Bryson and Hendrick nowehere near their potential? I'll throw you a few names who helped us reach the playoffs.. Jay McEverly, Stephen Pearson, Marcus Tudgay, Lee Grant, Lee Camp, Stephen Bywater, Adam Bolder, Richard Jackson, Giles Barnes, Lewin Nyatanga, Izale McLeod.. Half of these young players were 'regulars' in team that finished 3rd and 4th..Please, tell me how many of these improved and reached their potential? You can not predict who is going to do well and who isn't.. Don't give me that rubbish that this team is only going to improve.. Because they have as much chance of going backwards... Millwall finished 8th last season, where was their improvement? Why isn't their younger players now pushing for top 6 or the PL? Steve Morrison got his PL move, just like Tom Huddlestone did with us.. As for the rest, run of the mill players.. I'm not putting a negative spin on anything, I'm being realistic.. You're being incredibly unrealistic if you think they're all going to improve.. Football doesn't work like that, some players peak when they're 18 years old.. (Niel Mellor, Francis Jeffers, Richard Wright, Freddy Eastwood, Giles Barnes, Izale McLeod).. Richard Jackson was a better player for us than he has been the rest of his career. How do you improve on Shackell? Are you serious? Are you saying he's the best in the league? Jasper Gorkks is better, that's how you improve on this.. Jasper could play in the PL.. Shackell (I'd like to think he could but who knows).. Reading sold Matt Mills for $5mill and replaced him with a better player for 1/10th of that. And so what if Theo and Davies have a record of 1/2? Strikers aren't all about goals, Drogba has never been a 1/2 player.. If that was the case, lets go and get Billy Kee.. He's better than 1/2 for Burton Albion. You can improve the quality of striker without the goals.. Link up play, defending from the front, passing, controlling, hold up play, channel running, closing down, space creating.. It's not all about goals and if we want to be promoted one if not both of these ar not going to be our regular strikers. When did I ever say 'throw money at journeymen' you can get better players for free.. First of al Bris- you say that our younger players are not good enough and need to be replaced- then you say that it is impossible to tell which players are going to improve. Which is it? Yes, some of those players helped us to reach the play offs, you were missing a few names though, like Hulse for instance (who Davies has a better strike than by the way) You also mention 3 goalkeepers, I doubt that they all had a huge part to play in our promotion. I would take Mceverley back now and Pearson and Tudgay are still playing at the champ level- a young Bolder would be just the ticket in this team also. Barnes career was wrecked by injury. Those players that you mentioned are good examples of may or may not happen. I didn't say that Shackell was the best in the league, he is considered to be amongst the best though, I don't see what you are disputing that for? If you can only come up with Gorkks then it shows that Shacks is up there with the best- you said that you like to think he could play in the prem, why do we need to replace him then? We are in the Championship. Strikers are about goals, sniping and saying that ours aren't good enough and then changing the arguement when the stats are put in front of you is ridiculous. I am not sure about Davies assists but I can remember a few a Theos so he has that in his game too. As for Billy Kee, I am sure that even you will accept what a ridiculous suggestion that is- but if he is young and cheap it might be an option for the development squad because as you yourself say "You can not predict who is going to do well and who isn't". If we can't then why change the team for better players if we don't know how good ours are/ will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The last part is ifs, buts and maybe's. Davies and theo have had decent seasons but the fact is they have 10 (davies) and 9 (Theo) in the league. You cant start saying that if davies and theo had played every game it would work out they would have scored 23 and 15 cos it doesnt work like that. You honestly believe we cant improve our strikeforce? I dont mind either of them and would prefer more flair in midfield rather than a new striker, but id never describe them as potent. I am not saying that we couldn't improve our strike force, I am merely saying that people keep jumping on the one we have now- I know stats don't work like that, they could get more! Strikers are bought, sold and judged on their strike rate- our strikers have good strike rates that is all we can judge them on. I agree that we need more creativity in midfield and would like to see Maguire back and given a chance to show what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I can't believe that some people are saying that we can't improve on our current team, we are the 12th best team in what is an average league at best, even clough has said this is where we expect to be. Players at 25 are considered young, really ? Not a great comparison but when you think messi is 24, it puts into reality what are players are with some playing more games than him, championship level, nothing more nothing less, maybe one or 2 will go onto higher things, but watching them week in week out I would be very surprised if any with maybe the exception of hendrick play at the highest level in their career. Reading for example took the plunge and brought roberts in they didn't sit back and admire the stats, and they look like they are going to reap the rewards. Who is saying that we can't improve our team? My point is that it has been suggested that our players aren't good enough when most of them are showing that they are good for their age, and have achieved a higher points total than many of the older, experienced teams of the past. Hopefully a few of them will push on- 25 is still a couple of years off the general peak of career and they certainly aren't disgracing the club. Using Messi as an example is ridiculous, Owen was on fire at 19 so does that mean that all of our players should be in the England squad for the Euro's because he was? Messi is an exceptional talent, that is why everyone goes on about him-exceptional in the way that he is the exception and the vast majority of players have no hope of even getting close to what he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 From [url=http://www.portsmouth.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=277712]http://www.portsmout...le.asp?a=277712 Hull though he epitomised everything that is good and great about Portsmouth football club with its never say "sorry we have been cheating by spending money we haven't got and have a bad attitude", constant desire to avoid paying off debts and a willingness to never give in, even when it is obvious that your horrible little club is not financially viable. . FIXED! I just ask myself why the hell is he not anywhere near the 1st team at Derby? Either they have an abundance of extraordinary attacking talent or Nigel Clough is not a very good judge of player or just does not fancy him! Given the turnover of players at Derby in the past 12-18-months perhaps his judgement of players could be questioned? Erm, he signed him so probably shows that he does have a good judge of player- no-one else was interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What you had for brekkie Shilts? You're on fire mate..........good Friday morning posting 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Cheers matey, I think I got out of the wrong side of the bed! 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryKrinkle Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 DET said he is on loan until the end of the season and Clough was saying he wouldnt be coming back until the summer. I assume that it is just the Football League approval that is needed. Interesting that Clough has already mentioned the possibility of clubs coming in for Maguire in the summer....he really doesn't like him, does he!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Interesting that Clough has already mentioned the possibility of clubs coming in for Maguire in the summer....he really doesn't like him, does he!? Thats the part of the comment to me that confirms he isnt wanted. Everyone who is in his plans he always makes clear ismt for sale and doesnt encourage bids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Who is saying that we can't improve our team? My point is that it has been suggested that our players aren't good enough when most of them are showing that they are good for their age, and have achieved a higher points total than many of the older, experienced teams of the past. Hopefully a few of them will push on- 25 is still a couple of years off the general peak of career and they certainly aren't disgracing the club. Using Messi as an example is ridiculous, Owen was on fire at 19 so does that mean that all of our players should be in the England squad for the Euro's because he was? Messi is an exceptional talent, that is why everyone goes on about him-exceptional in the way that he is the exception and the vast majority of players have no hope of even getting close to what he has. Because he has played around the same number of games as say for example Bryson, my point being is that you can after that amount of games get a general feeling where they are going to be in there career. So you are saying that 12th in this league is good for their age ? The average age for the squad is 26, which is around the average in this league, we have 7 in the squad under 21 compared to say boro who have 9, the we are a young team may be true, but a lot of other teams are also going down this route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Who is saying that we can't improve our team? . Being negative about Derby Bris? There is a surprise. I am not sure how much you read of press releases etc but it has been said over and over that we are building for the future- Bryson is 25 and will only get better, Hendrick is a kid and is not out of place already- saying that we need "better" when they are holding their own and have nowhere near reached their potential is ludicrous. Also Shackell is thought to be one of the best CB's in the division so I don't really know how you hope to improve on this? I thought you did, unless I read it wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Because he has played around the same number of games as say for example Bryson, my point being is that you can after that amount of games get a general feeling where they are going to be in there career. So you are saying that 12th in this league is good for their age ? The average age for the squad is 26, which is around the average in this league, we have 7 in the squad under 21 compared to say boro who have 9, the we are a young team may be true, but a lot of other teams are also going down this route. Good, young teams are the way forward and hopefully will lead to more British players in the league. I think that 12th is good for their age, yes. It is better than more experienced players have managed for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I thought you did, unless I read it wrong ? Yes, you did- I was talking about Shackell, not the entire team- he is one of the best in the division, so we can't improve on him- without spending Millions or falling very lucky with a lower league bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Good, young teams are the way forward and hopefully will lead to more British players in the league. I think that 12th is good for their age, yes. It is better than more experienced players have managed for us. Under Clough I presume you mean ? The reason I ask is that if you take the last promotion team we had, which was a mix of both young and old, Barnes, Lupoli, Jones, Mears, McCleverly, Fagan, Leacock, ones that I think can be considered young compared to our current lot, then is 12th compared to this good for there age ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.shilton Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Under Clough I presume you mean ? The reason I ask is that if you take the last promotion team we had, which was a mix of both young and old, Barnes, Lupoli, Jones, Mears, McCleverly, Fagan, Leacock, ones that I think can be considered young compared to our current lot, then is 12th compared to this good for there age ? Things have changed, yes I do still think it is good- lupoli wasn't ours either. What wages were these players on also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Carrol isnt ours either 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> I cant see anything that shows me that this team is anything but an average Championship team, its alright saying they are cheap/on less wages, but we are 12th in the second tier of football in this country, yes they are doing better than the past 2 years, but they were poor championship teams. Its not being negative, its being realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBW Ram Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Because he has played around the same number of games as say for example Bryson, my point being is that you can after that amount of games get a general feeling where they are going to be in there career. So you are saying that 12th in this league is good for their age ? The average age for the squad is 26, which is around the average in this league, we have 7 in the squad under 21 compared to say boro who have 9, the we are a young team may be true, but a lot of other teams are also going down this route. I think the average age for the squad still in the building is 22.6. (counting players who have played) If the average is around 26, then we are some way below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I think the average age for the squad still in the building is 22.6. (counting players who have played) If the average is around 26, then we are some way below average. Dont know if Im honest, I just took it from here :- [url=http://www.statbunker.com/football/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=370&statType=seasonsquad]http://www.statbunker.com/football/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=370&statType=seasonsquad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Dont know if Im honest, I just took it from here :- [url=http://www.statbunker.com/football/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=370&statType=seasonsquad]http://www.statbunke...ype=seasonsquad It says the average age of our squad and forests squad is the same 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ph34r' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' /> 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCountryAKAYamYamRam Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 First post. I have a relative who works at our beloved DCFC and she says that any cross word with NC results in instant banishment from first team plans,a my way or the highway scenario.One strike and yer out!!!In interviews he comes across as aloof and self righteous with no sense of humour and he's fallen out with so many players it's become an embarrasment now and it makes you wonder just who is next.Chris Maguire has certainly got talent and deserves more of a chance to show it,imo but I will be very surprised if he is to feature prominantly due to the fact he has not been backwards in coming forwards with his own opinions,to which he is entitled. Yes,football is a team game but if NC keeps having silly spats with anyone who feels there's a different way to his then every time momentum is built up it'll be stopped in it's tracks and that has happened a few too many times for my liking while he's been here. And before anyone jumps down my throat,my source is very reliable and I am expressing MY opinions.You are fully entitled to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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