Serial Whingers Notts Forest playtime, which we simply cannot accept.

[Premier ram]

 

                    Come on Everton

[scout's dad]

3 hours ago, Pontius Pilate said:

Also, it's been a long time since you were there so it's probably changed quite a bit but the difference in level is huge. Even the bottom teams are decent and have good players costing tens of millions. You don't realise how much higher the standard is until you watch it up close. The speed of play and movement of the players is unbelievable at times and any mistakes gey punished.

You probably noticed a similar drop off in quality when you went down to the 3rd division. 

If you’re getting picky, who’s spent more time in the Premiership you or us?

[alram]

2 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

I'm not so sure about that. Newcastle are third on 59 points currently; when we went down Arsenal in 3rd finished on 83. None of the bottom 3 look even close to securing a point per game on average either. Apart from the top 2, it looks like a much of a muchness which doesn't necessarily indicate the division's strength. Just from watching the odd game live and highlights I wouldn't be calling this the strongest division in years, and we can perhaps also see that in relation to the European results. The year we went down man Utd and Chelsea battled it out to be kings of Europe now it's just Man City with Arsenal being knocked out in the quarters of the UEFA Cup.. it hardly screams vintage. 

I'd say this is quite a weak but entertaining division. Most teams can beat each other with the exception of Man City and until the last 4 games Arsenal looking really difficult to beat. Whatever happens this season, I think next season Forest are absolutely screwed. If they stay up they'll be stuck pretty much with the squad they have unless they commit to a mass sell-off. They'll be making huge losses and be stuck with a ton of wages few others will want to take on. Even if they scrape to survival this year, does anyone really think they'll be any better next year? If they go down unless they spring back up immediately it smells like financial armageddon. 

i think points tallies are irrelevant, the reality is everyone is in the mix and bottom can beat top. that isn't the case normally because the bottom teams are so poor

 

because the bottom teams are stronger it makes the points near the bottom lower, doesnt mean they are worse teams

 

just my opinion and of course not provable but i dont think there would be any other season where players like maddison, ward prowse could be in the relegation zone. west ham are about to get in the final of a european competition and arent out of the woods yet

[Leeds Ram]

40 minutes ago, alram said:

i think points tallies are irrelevant, the reality is everyone is in the mix and bottom can beat top. that isn't the case normally because the bottom teams are so poor

 

because the bottom teams are stronger it makes the points near the bottom lower, doesnt mean they are worse teams

 

just my opinion and of course not provable but i dont think there would be any other season where players like maddison, ward prowse could be in the relegation zone. west ham are about to get in the final of a european competition and arent out of the woods yet

I'm not sure how the logic of the teams are stronger because they have fewer points works out. It sounds counter-intuitive to me, unless you're suggesting because almost everyone is in the mix (besides Southampton really) then it's levelled it out slightly. I'd suggest more teams are beatable and susceptible to shocks but from what I've seen the quality in the bottom half isn't really that strong. Of course, to show it you'd need a deep statistical dive which I don't have the inclination to do. 

Do you not remember the west ham team, which had Tevez, Mascherano et al in who only survived on the final day by beating man utd? Pretty sure West Ham had another iteration with Defoe and Di-canio in which either went down or only just survived. Middlesborough got relegated with a team that contained both Juninhio and prime ravinelli. Teams have been relegated before or just survived despite having significant talent on the pitch.

[Bris Vegas]

The PL is awful this season.

Teams like Liverpool, Chelsea and Spurs are poor. 

Yet despite them being poor, the bottom six are still averaging less than a point per game.

It can’t be of great standard if half a dozen average less than a point per game in a league where three of the big six are languishing. 

If it was such a strong league, the 3 promoted teams wouldn’t be sitting outside the bottom 3 with 5 games to go. When was the last time that ever happened?

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Forest are a detriment to any division they're in.

Like a honking jobbie floating in the bowl, it doesn't matter where the toilet is, the only solution is to keep flushing until it's no longer there to ruin your day.

[MarsdenRam]

34 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Forest are a detriment to any division they're in.

Like a honking jobbie floating in the bowl, it doesn't matter where the toilet is, the only solution is to keep flushing until it's no longer there to ruin your day.

It's an enduring image. And remember, always s*** on the red side of the Trent. 💩

[Crewton]

When a Bournemouth team, who were every pundits favourites to finish bottom, are more than holding their own in the relegation battle, and Fulham, Brentford and Brighton are pushing for a European place, and Villa are pushing for a CL place, and Chelsea are floundering in mid-table. I'm not convinced that this is "the strongest PL in years".

It's one of the most interesting in years, I'll give it that.

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

8 hours ago, alram said:

not sure where this theory that this is a terrible premier league, maybe because Forest are in it and that’s what we want to believe but I watch a lot of pl football and it’s probably the strongest league ever. look at the players teams near the bottom have, anybody can beat anybody and that’s just not the case in previous seasons

The common denominator. There are 6 lots of dross rather than the usual 4 battling it out..

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

 

8 hours ago, Pontius Pilate said:

Also, it's been a long time since you were there so it's probably changed quite a bit but the difference in level is huge. Even the bottom teams are decent and have good players costing tens of millions. You don't realise how much higher the standard is until you watch it up close. The speed of play and movement of the players is unbelievable at times and any mistakes gey punished.

You probably noticed a similar drop off in quality when you went down to the 3rd division. 

Fair bit of quality here.  A while ago though so had to convert it from sepia.  Last time you played there wasn't it, thanks to Horacio.  He's nearly 50 now.  

 

[Pontius Pilate]

7 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

I would define "hardest" as being most competitive, so highlighting 3rd place scoring more points 15years ago would highlight more strength NOW than it would weakness now.

Exactly. Arsenal in 3rd being on 83 pts all that time ago means nowt. All that tells us is that the top teams were stronger and the bottom teams weaker (cough 11 pts). It tells us nothing about the overall strength of the league.

I mean this season there's a relegation team in the latter stages of Europe ffs.

[Pontius Pilate]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

When a Bournemouth team, who were every pundits favourites to finish bottom, are more than holding their own in the relegation battle, and Fulham, Brentford and Brighton are pushing for a European place, and Villa are pushing for a CL place, and Chelsea are floundering in mid-table. I'm not convinced that this is "the strongest PL in years".

It's one of the most interesting in years, I'll give it that.

Shows you how much you watch it. Clearly just judged them by their history there 🤣

Let me guess you think they should be back in the 4th tier where they belong?

[alram]

i dont feel strongly enough to keep debating it, it cant be proven factually from either side of the argument but i have watched pl with personal interest for years due to a family member being involved, and it is by far the strongest its ever been top to bottom. there is no "dross" in the league, there have been plenty of it in the past, none this season as much as we all like to think there is because forest are there. its just not the reality, whichever ones go down will come straight back up even if they find themselves in a state

Edited April 27, 2023 by alram

[alram]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

When a Bournemouth team, who were every pundits favourites to finish bottom, are more than holding their own in the relegation battle, and Fulham, Brentford and Brighton are pushing for a European place, and Villa are pushing for a CL place, and Chelsea are floundering in mid-table. I'm not convinced that this is "the strongest PL in years".

It's one of the most interesting in years, I'll give it that.

you contradicted your own argument, chelsea are floundering in mid table and liverpool have been there most of the season because everyone else is so strong, there are no easy games like in previous years where teams could rack up points

 

look at the personnel, teams that have been stable in the prem for years and years and struggling. maddison / ward prowse are in 2 of the bottom 3 teams, that wouldnt happen in other seasons

[TigerTedd]

9 hours ago, Pontius Pilate said:

Spot on. Toughest it's been in years with nobody properly falling away.

Fair point. I mean you’ve had to spend £200m quid just to reach the dizzying heights of 17th. That could be some sort of indication of the quality of the teams above you. Like Bournemouth. 

[TigerTedd]

19 minutes ago, alram said:

you contradicted your own argument, chelsea are floundering in mid table and liverpool have been there most of the season because everyone else is so strong, there are no easy games like in previous years where teams could rack up points

 

look at the personnel, teams that have been stable in the prem for years and years and struggling. maddison / ward prowse are in 2 of the bottom 3 teams, that wouldnt happen in other seasons

To be fair, we’ve seen 9-0s this seen. 6-1, 7-0. There’s been some drubbings. Teams have just been ridiculously inconsistent. It was just a couple of seasons ago when city and Liverpool were both touching 100 points. That’s not going to happen this season. Chelsea and Liverpool aren’t doing crap because other teams are good, they’ve just been crap.

You’re argument is that the better teams aren’t performing as well because the worse teams are performing better and taking points off them. Alternatively you could say the worse teams are as bad as ever, but the better teams have come down a notch, making the overall quality of the league less.

Even City counted in this category at the start of the season, although they’re probably in the kind of ridiculously good form now that statistically raises the average quality of the whole league. 

[Pontius Pilate]

5 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Fair point. I mean you’ve had to spend £200m quid just to reach the dizzying heights of 17th.

Just shows you the gap between the Premier League and the EFL.

[Crewton]

27 minutes ago, Pontius Pilate said:

Just shows you the gap between the Premier League and the EFL.

Bournemouth didn't need to spend anything like£200m - despite almost completely overhauling their squad last season.

It's more an indication of how much rubbish you've bought.

[Crewton]

56 minutes ago, alram said:

you contradicted your own argument, chelsea are floundering in mid table and liverpool have been there most of the season because everyone else is so strong, there are no easy games like in previous years where teams could rack up points

 

look at the personnel, teams that have been stable in the prem for years and years and struggling. maddison / ward prowse are in 2 of the bottom 3 teams, that wouldnt happen in other seasons

Rubbish - it's largely because both teams are underperforming significantly and Leicester's recruitment has been shocking for at least the last two seasons.

 

 

[Pontius Pilate]

4 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Bournemouth didn't need to spend anything like£200m - despite almost completely overhauling their squad last season.

It's more an indication of how much rubbish you've bought.

That's because they've already spent it, just over a longer period of time. Bournemouth have spent 6 out of the last 8 seasons in the Premier League as well.

I'm not quite sure that you comprehend the challenge of getting promoted having built a squad of mostly loans, frees and academy players in the Championship and then having to build a new squad to survive in the world's toughest league. But then again why would you be able to comprehend it? It's a million miles away from what you're used to.