RoyMac5 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 20 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: In Mat Clarke we have a very good defender who unfortunately although being good on the ball generally tends to be slow to distribute, a bit ponderous on the ball if you like. This potentially slows the tempo of the team. I think PC showed him what he wanted and hoped that MTW & Wisdom would perform on the day. You are correct in that it blew up in PC's face as Wisdom had a poor game and MTW was atrocious. A good explanation. But why did Cocu choose Wisdom? Why not Evans? See that's what screws up his chances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: A good explanation. But why did Cocu choose Wisdom? Why not Evans? See that's what screws up his chances! We all know the main reason you're anti-Cocu is because he's the manager who (in the end) let Martin go ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, cheron85 said: We all know the main reason you're anti-Cocu is because he's the manager who (in the end) let Martin go ? Meh, I'm sure we'll get him back on loan! ? I'm not utterly anti-Cocu, but it seems (last season and this - so far) that everytime he does something right he totally confuses by something else wrong. See I could go along with the management of Clarke & rhythm if only he hadn't then played (an obviously unfit) Wisdom on the wrong side. How was that EVER going to work, especially with Mike struggling too?!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 It happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I'm not utterly anti-Cocu, but it seems (last season and this - so far) that everytime he does something right he totally confuses by something else wrong. See I could go along with the management of Clarke & rhythm if only he hadn't then played (an obviously unfit) Wisdom on the wrong side. How was that EVER going to work, especially with Mike struggling too?!!! I actually don't think the CBs were the biggest problem on Saturday - The cover they were getting from midfield was non-existent I think the fact that he's trying things is positive - We've seen way too many managers who stick to their guns and won't change anything - We had serious problems with the LHS of our defensive unit against Luton and he took steps to shake that up - Which worked to an extent and then another problem cropped up This is a manager who's spent over a year now essentially bailing water from a boat full of holes - First he tries to correct the gaping DM hole we've had for years and that blows up - Then he loses the captain and organiser of our defence - He's under constant pressure to work with cheaper player options and get rid of players - He's not allowed to keep striker he wants to - And he has to start this season with all our senior attacking players injured / unfit All of those gaping holes in the boat and the backdrop of not being able to patch it properly because we have a transfer embargo... People seem to be acting like we have a lovely boat which just needs pointing in the right direction and then we'll be fine - We don't - Cocu arrived at a boat which was sinking fast, full of holes and old planks and it then last season spent the year getting blown apart by cannons - This year he's started with some leftover pieces, some fresh, unvarnished, unfinished planks and found some new pieces he likes and is having to rebuild a boat from scratch - That takes time Not sure where I got the boat analogy from but I think it's apt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: People seem to be acting like we have a lovely boat which just needs pointing in the right direction and then we'll be fine - We don't - Cocu arrived at a boat which was sinking fast, full of holes and old planks and it then last season spent the year getting blown apart by cannons - This year he's started with some leftover pieces, some fresh, unvarnished, unfinished planks and found some new pieces he likes and is having to rebuild a boat from scratch - That takes time Not sure where I got the boat analogy from but I think it's apt Sure. We've not sunk. But a bit like with Clough Jnr we're not winning the race either. We cannot say how another manager might have handled it nor the players they would have played or where, so that is a false positive for me. (But I do think Cocu seems a very sound bloke) All that we can comment on is how it seems the club are doing and for some atm it seems to not be doing as well as was hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 28 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Sure. We've not sunk. But a bit like with Clough Jnr we're not winning the race either. We cannot say how another manager might have handled it nor the players they would have played or where, so that is a false positive for me. (But I do think Cocu seems a very sound bloke) All that we can comment on is how it seems the club are doing and for some atm it seems to not be doing as well as was hoped. I agree that it's very much like the start of the Clough Jnr era - He was brought in with no money and asked to ship out our higher earners - Also asked to establish a pattern of play and a way to move forward - And it took time to achieve that and time to put together a squad which eventually became capable of competing I fully agree we don't know how another manager would have handled things - So we can't say they would have done worse or better - You seem to act like another manager would have done better but to your point we actually don't know ?♂️ I don't have an infinite level of patience - But I think he's had a rough first year - Rougher than almost any other club in the league (Wigan aside) - And the start to this season (transfer embargo, all our senior attackers injured) has been more difficult than other sides - He had to run pre-season without any senior attackers and even now he doesn't have many fit - You need players fit and training with the first team to get them working together and organised - Which he still hasn't had! I think at the moment there are enough mitigating circumstances that we need to give him a bit more time - If there are no recovery shoots by the end of October I'll start to think maybe there's something wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Rougher than almost any other club in the league (Wigan aside) But they were in the end sunk by non-football matters. 31 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I think at the moment there are enough mitigating circumstances that we need to give him a bit more time - If there are no recovery shoots by the end of October I'll start to think maybe there's something wrong I think Mel will give him longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Curtains said: Didn’t here you going on RD last night. I didn't realise I was supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: But they were in the end sunk by non-football matters. And Cocu got mostly blown apart last season by non-football matters 12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I think Mel will give him longer. If we don't have any points he might not - But I have faith it will improve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ellafella said: I didn't realise I was supposed to. Please - enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Ellafella said: Please - enlighten me. Well I’m Dave from Allestree. I think you should go on next week with Roy and slate Cocu. If you have the guts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Sure. We've not sunk. But a bit like with Clough Jnr we're not winning the race either. We cannot say how another manager might have handled it nor the players they would have played or where, so that is a false positive for me. (But I do think Cocu seems a very sound bloke) All that we can comment on is how it seems the club are doing and for some atm it seems to not be doing as well as was hoped. We gave Clough more than a season to fix it though. If I remember correctly we finished 19th in Clough's 2nd full season. We probably hung on to Nigel a season too long but it took him into his 3rd season to actually start to get it together. Small squads, lots of injuries. Lack of strikers... Sound familiar? I might be wrong, but I believe that Cocu and what he is trying to do has a far higher ceiling than Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, BondJovi said: I might be wrong, but I believe that Cocu and what he is trying to do has a far higher ceiling than Nigel. Your right to believe what you wish. From what I've seen of Cocu this season and last I am still not convinced he knows what it takes to get out of the Championship. I am happy to be proved wrong, as I would have been if Rowett had taken us up. Football is about winning, firstly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, Curtains said: Well I’m Dave from Allestree. I think you should go on next week with Roy and slate Cocu. If you have the guts. Why does it take guts to go on a lame Radio call in which is already populated with callers with totally random opinions. You must be a very timid person if this is the pinnacle of bravery in your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Your right to believe what you wish. From what I've seen of Cocu this season and last I am still not convinced he knows what it takes to get out of the Championship. I am happy to be proved wrong, as I would have been if Rowett had taken us up. Football is about winning, firstly. Clearly though by that reckoning, none of our managers have had what it takes? Will they only be a success if we get promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, Tyler Durden said: Why does it take guts to go on a lame Radio call in which is already populated with callers with totally random opinions. You must be a very timid person if this is the pinnacle of bravery in your eyes. Timid me . No tough guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Just now, BondJovi said: Clearly though by that reckoning, none of our managers have had what it takes? Will they only be a success if we get promoted? Well if the journey is fun along the way, then maybe not. How much fun was Rowett when we weren't winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Curtains said: Timid me . No tough guy. Am not trying to be contentious I just don't see what's particularly brave about calling someone out to have the guts to go on a radio phone in and express their views. I stopped listening to that aeons ago as some of the views on their are just pitiful you'd have thought Radio Derby had them on their payroll as stooges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Tyler Durden said: Am not trying to be contentious I just don't see what's particularly brave about calling someone out to have to guts to go on a radio phone in and express their views. I stopped listening to that aeons ago as some of the views on their are just pitiful you'd have thought Radio Derby had them on their payroll as stooges. Easy to be a keyboard warrior with no name right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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