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Has Roy Mac lost the forum?


sage

Has Roy Mac lost the forum?  

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22 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Mate I’m sure the performance wasn’t good enough on Saturday and has been hit and miss recently but I think a bit of patience is needed. 

Changing manager at this stage of the season would seem like a knee jerk reaction to me.  The younger players from the Academy have benefited from Rooney and Cocu.  Things are nowhere near as bad as is being perceived on the forum at the moment. 

Football is funny old game as Jimmy Greaves often said. 

Look at Manchester City and Wolves yesterday conceding goals for fun . It happens.

I can remember Brian Clough starting really slowly at Derby and then going on to greatness. 

Rome wasn’t built in a day. 

Now as regards losing the dressing room I’d say their is no chance Cocu has done that.  I think the players like him.  

Chris Martin is a good player when fit for a certain system of playing and as for Bradley Johnson he got loads of stick from Derby fans as did Butterfield. 

Dowell was hammered as was Paterson etc etc. 

Derby fans are good but often contrary wanting cost saving on one hand and giving young players a chance and then won’t tolerate poor performances and Not going for the title .

We clearly need a CF and hopefully we will get one this week .

Lets give Cocu a chance to see what he can do  

 

Look also at the Lawrence detractors...... certainly seems to be showing how much we miss him now. And I’m aware he has improved with Rooney around. 

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1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Whilst my opinion on Cocu has been a bit 'swings and roundabouts', other posters have too. I was 'stunned' by the supposed rationale to drop Clarke and p*ssed off by the manager telling us the attitude of the players wasn't good enough - fix it! Crazy days.

So I was interested in seeing if others thought Cocu had lost the dressing room. We've previously seen similar things be the start of a slippery downslope. Obviously not so many remember Phil Brown's attempt to make his players 'more manly'! Getting them to sit in the centre circle at half-time didn't quite do the trick. Mental attitude is such a large part of sport and if the players really have lost respect for Cocu it's hard to get back. I'm not sure we'll know whether they have or not, but wanted to know what others thought.

But apparently it was a bit too negative for some? Oh well. Not keen on this bit of silliness of a poll but it does tell me that I'm not totp for popularity on here. ? I can live with that, it's not something new, it often comes with strong opinions. ? #COYR #WeareallDerby

Edit: I don't recall saying 'Cocu out', but yeah why not?! ?

Been away from reading all the threads so don’t know whether this point has been made but I watched Ryan Conway digest twitter thing on Saturday night and he was asked about Cocu and the dressing room and he said something like (after a pause, admittingly) “no, many in the club even consider him a miracle worker for getting 10th last season. As far as we are aware the players clearly love working with him”. 
 

On the attitude part I don’t think he means that they are sulky or that they don’t have an attitude to win. It’s more that they putting their efforts into the wrong place. Marriotts the key example for me, can’t say he didn’t work hard and that he thinks he’s doing the right things but he wasn’t doing his job. He was chasing loose balls, trying to win headers he didn’t have a chance with, dropping deep which pushed us back deeper and generally pointing at everyone else. He thinks he was doing right but he’s not being smart. There’s quite a few doing similar things at the minute and I think a lot of it’s down to confidence and lack of match sharpness which I presume is being addressed.

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1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

Whilst my opinion on Cocu has been a bit 'swings and roundabouts', other posters have too. I was 'stunned' by the supposed rationale to drop Clarke and p*ssed off by the manager telling us the attitude of the players wasn't good enough - fix it! Crazy days.

So I was interested in seeing if others thought Cocu had lost the dressing room. We've previously seen similar things be the start of a slippery downslope. Obviously not so many remember Phil Brown's attempt to make his players 'more manly'! Getting them to sit in the centre circle at half-time didn't quite do the trick. Mental attitude is such a large part of sport and if the players really have lost respect for Cocu it's hard to get back. I'm not sure we'll know whether they have or not, but wanted to know what others thought.

But apparently it was a bit too negative for some? Oh well. Not keen on this bit of silliness of a poll but it does tell me that I'm not totp for popularity on here. ? I can live with that, it's not something new, it often comes with strong opinions. ? #COYR #WeareallDerby

Edit: I don't recall saying 'Cocu out', but yeah why not?! ?

@RoyMac5 I have to say that I found that "explanation" absolutely jaw-dropping too and am surprised there hasn't been more discussion about it. Quite clearly, it demonstrated to me at best "fuzzy" judgement. I  was actually surprised that Cocu was prepared to "explain" it. Quite clearly, Dutch Mike was going to get picked "come what may" and so to me the whole "explanation" about Clarke was a somewhat "rationalised" and a bit "ergo post hoc". It also massively exploded in Cocu's face given we lost so resoundingly. It reminded me a little of Cocu's explanation as to why Shinnie wasn't getting anywhere near the Team a few months ago - and then he was brought in and gave a MOTM performance. I asked in what way people thought Shinnie had amended his game in the way that Cocu had suggested he needed to to get picked again - but nobody could answer. 

So, I'd say you have every right to check out if you thought he had "lost the dressing room"; and as paid-up supporters of the Club, we have a right as fans to question decisions and criticize things if we think they are wrong. Let's be quite clear here. I like Phillip Cocu; he's a really decent man and achieved a lot in the game as a player  and, to a lesser extent, as a manager. But that doesn't mean he is beyond everyday scrutiny. I personally suspect that one of the issues is that Cocu tends to over-cerebralise football. It is a very simple game actually. 

Like yourself, I am also in 2 minds about whether PC can be successful here - I look for confirmatory evidence that he can (we beat Blackburn 3-0 at home in March) and I think about dis-confirmatory evidence (we got stuffed 4-0 at home by a pretty much same Blackburn team at the weekend). BUT it was the manner of the performance and that "explanation" about Clarke that opens up in my mind a big question mark about PC's judgement. And for those that say, the problem "lies with the players" mis-understand the point of management - the manager is supposed to get his points across in a way that means they play for him in the way he wants. If the manager cannot do that, then he will FAIL as a manager because the buck stops at the manager's door. 

So, @RoyMac5 please accept my vote of support for your post. As fans, we all share the same "end point" and that is to see Derby County as successful as they can be. We all want that, and as fans we may differ in our views and we may question decisions and selections and that's part and parcel of it all. And, I'd love to hear what others think of that "explanation" and indeed if anyone else has thought, "yep! Clarke's good but he really does need to sort his rhythm out somewhat". 

 

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2 hours ago, Mafiabob said:

As much as I disagree with a lot @RoyMac5says..... I find it uneasy to start threads about particular posters questioning and mocking them. I know, I used to mock other posters too.

 

Fair enough if it doesn’t bother Roy, just a bit of a slippery slope for me and can do more harm than good.

Can see a bit of where your comming from but surely we can take this forum for what it is , a mix of football debate , football info and a bit of a giggle too ? I know with roy I clash loads on opinion but also agree with him too at times and can tell you if I met him would buy him a pint and hope he was up for a laugh , same goes for anybody else on here ,

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8 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

So, @RoyMac5 please accept my vote of support for your post.

Cheers mate!

9 minutes ago, Ellafella said:

And, I'd love to hear what others think of that "explanation" and indeed if anyone else has thought, "yep! Clarke's good but he really does need to sort his rhythm out somewhat". 

Bit of a thread here. I can only think (now, just thought) that it's along the lines of 'the little bit extra' that adds up to a big difference? Bit soon for that for most of our lot?!

 

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11 minutes ago, Archied said:

I know with roy I clash loads on opinion but also agree with him too at times and can tell you if I met him would buy him a pint and hope he was up for a laugh , same goes for anybody else on here ,

More than one pint ya tight bugger!

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2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Whilst my opinion on Cocu has been a bit 'swings and roundabouts', other posters have too. I was 'stunned' by the supposed rationale to drop Clarke and p*ssed off by the manager telling us the attitude of the players wasn't good enough - fix it! Crazy days.

So I was interested in seeing if others thought Cocu had lost the dressing room. We've previously seen similar things be the start of a slippery downslope. Obviously not so many remember Phil Brown's attempt to make his players 'more manly'! Getting them to sit in the centre circle at half-time didn't quite do the trick. Mental attitude is such a large part of sport and if the players really have lost respect for Cocu it's hard to get back. I'm not sure we'll know whether they have or not, but wanted to know what others thought.

But apparently it was a bit too negative for some? Oh well. Not keen on this bit of silliness of a poll but it does tell me that I'm not totp for popularity on here. ? I can live with that, it's not something new, it often comes with strong opinions. ? #COYR #WeareallDerby

Edit: I don't recall saying 'Cocu out', but yeah why not?! ?

I voted no. I don’t think it’s anything to do with popularity it is just people don’t agree with you. In the heat of things I thought Cocu was useless and made wrong decisions but that’s his job and he will stay or go based upon those decisions. I want any manager we have to be a success because that will mean we are getting the right results at the very least. The fact you got a thread based upon your views and it is now 4 pages long shows there is a debate to be had. 

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15 hours ago, Ellafella said:

@RoyMac5 I have to say that I found that "explanation" absolutely jaw-dropping too and am surprised there hasn't been more discussion about it. Quite clearly, it demonstrated to me at best "fuzzy" judgement. I  was actually surprised that Cocu was prepared to "explain" it. Quite clearly, Dutch Mike was going to get picked "come what may" and so to me the whole "explanation" about Clarke was a somewhat "rationalised" and a bit "ergo post hoc". It also massively exploded in Cocu's face given we lost so resoundingly. It reminded me a little of Cocu's explanation as to why Shinnie wasn't getting anywhere near the Team a few months ago - and then he was brought in and gave a MOTM performance. I asked in what way people thought Shinnie had amended his game in the way that Cocu had suggested he needed to to get picked again - but nobody could answer. 

So, I'd say you have every right to check out if you thought he had "lost the dressing room"; and as paid-up supporters of the Club, we have a right as fans to question decisions and criticize things if we think they are wrong. Let's be quite clear here. I like Phillip Cocu; he's a really decent man and achieved a lot in the game as a player  and, to a lesser extent, as a manager. But that doesn't mean he is beyond everyday scrutiny. I personally suspect that one of the issues is that Cocu tends to over-cerebralise football. It is a very simple game actually. 

Like yourself, I am also in 2 minds about whether PC can be successful here - I look for confirmatory evidence that he can (we beat Blackburn 3-0 at home in March) and I think about dis-confirmatory evidence (we got stuffed 4-0 at home by a pretty much same Blackburn team at the weekend). BUT it was the manner of the performance and that "explanation" about Clarke that opens up in my mind a big question mark about PC's judgement. And for those that say, the problem "lies with the players" mis-understand the point of management - the manager is supposed to get his points across in a way that means they play for him in the way he wants. If the manager cannot do that, then he will FAIL as a manager because the buck stops at the manager's door. 

So, @RoyMac5 please accept my vote of support for your post. As fans, we all share the same "end point" and that is to see Derby County as successful as they can be. We all want that, and as fans we may differ in our views and we may question decisions and selections and that's part and parcel of it all. And, I'd love to hear what others think of that "explanation" and indeed if anyone else has thought, "yep! Clarke's good but he really does need to sort his rhythm out somewhat". 

 

I'll have a go Ella..............Successful sides have a rhythm about their play. A tempo, a pace that runs through the team but importantly starts at the back in our type of football. It is expressed in speed of thought, speed of pass & move, fluid movement etc.  In Mat Clarke we have a very good defender who unfortunately although being good on the ball generally tends to be slow to distribute, a bit ponderous on the ball if you like. This potentially slows the tempo of the team. I think PC showed him what he wanted and hoped that MTW & Wisdom would perform on the day. You are correct in that it blew up in PC's face as Wisdom had a poor game and MTW was atrocious. 

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16 hours ago, Ellafella said:

@RoyMac5 I have to say that I found that "explanation" absolutely jaw-dropping too and am surprised there hasn't been more discussion about it. Quite clearly, it demonstrated to me at best "fuzzy" judgement. I  was actually surprised that Cocu was prepared to "explain" it. Quite clearly, Dutch Mike was going to get picked "come what may" and so to me the whole "explanation" about Clarke was a somewhat "rationalised" and a bit "ergo post hoc". It also massively exploded in Cocu's face given we lost so resoundingly. It reminded me a little of Cocu's explanation as to why Shinnie wasn't getting anywhere near the Team a few months ago - and then he was brought in and gave a MOTM performance. I asked in what way people thought Shinnie had amended his game in the way that Cocu had suggested he needed to to get picked again - but nobody could answer. 

So, I'd say you have every right to check out if you thought he had "lost the dressing room"; and as paid-up supporters of the Club, we have a right as fans to question decisions and criticize things if we think they are wrong. Let's be quite clear here. I like Phillip Cocu; he's a really decent man and achieved a lot in the game as a player  and, to a lesser extent, as a manager. But that doesn't mean he is beyond everyday scrutiny. I personally suspect that one of the issues is that Cocu tends to over-cerebralise football. It is a very simple game actually. 

Like yourself, I am also in 2 minds about whether PC can be successful here - I look for confirmatory evidence that he can (we beat Blackburn 3-0 at home in March) and I think about dis-confirmatory evidence (we got stuffed 4-0 at home by a pretty much same Blackburn team at the weekend). BUT it was the manner of the performance and that "explanation" about Clarke that opens up in my mind a big question mark about PC's judgement. And for those that say, the problem "lies with the players" mis-understand the point of management - the manager is supposed to get his points across in a way that means they play for him in the way he wants. If the manager cannot do that, then he will FAIL as a manager because the buck stops at the manager's door. 

So, @RoyMac5 please accept my vote of support for your post. As fans, we all share the same "end point" and that is to see Derby County as successful as they can be. We all want that, and as fans we may differ in our views and we may question decisions and selections and that's part and parcel of it all. And, I'd love to hear what others think of that "explanation" and indeed if anyone else has thought, "yep! Clarke's good but he really does need to sort his rhythm out somewhat". 

 

Has Cocu run over you and Roy’s cat lol

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