How do they do it ?

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Derbados said:

Forests academy have also just been crowned champions of England. . . despite also not being category 1, which I’d suggest is a bigger achievement 

When were they "Champions of Engalnd"?

1 hour ago, Derbados said:

They have had players such as Lascelles, Darlow, Cash, Burke, Osbourne, Morgan, Bamford. All of which are or have played in the premier league, one even captained the side that won the premier league with Leicester 

Lascelles - Successfully made the step up to the Prem
Darlow - left 6 years ago. 29 years old. Flopped in the Prem.
Cash - Didn't come through their academy as he was signed as a free agent for their development squad (U23s).
Osborn - Only played a handful of games for Sheffield Utd. Too early to judge whether he's good enough for that level.
Morgan - 36 years old. Not a true representation on the quality of their academy at this moment in time
Bamford - Left 8 years ago. Now 26 and has only bettered 15 goals in a Championship season twice, scoring more than 10 on 1 extra occasion. Not a great record, is it?

In recent times they've sold 4 players to Premier League clubs, with only 1 successfully making that step up.

You've listed 6 players. I could name Huddlestone, Hendrick, Hughes, Mutch, Grant and Barnes as players who have played in the Prem

1 hour ago, Derbados said:

then take into account the fees Forest received for those players

Do fees represent the quality of a player? As a Derby fan you should know that isn't the case. Just look at Claude Davies, Blackman and Anya as obvious examples

1 hour ago, Derbados said:

I get the fact that our academy is our jewel in the crown and it’s seen as blasphemous to even dare to question its end product 

but you cannot deny that up to now, Forests academy has ****** all over ours with nowhere near the levels of investment or category 1 status

From players (past and present) here's a list of players to have made more than 20 Prem appearances, aged 40 or below):
Forest: Dawson, Morgan, Perch, Darlow, Bamford, Lascelles
Derby: Riggott, Murray, Evatt, Grant, Huddlestone, Barnes, Mutch, Hendrick, Hughes

The one thing Forest have over us (by a considerable distance) is the fees received for their players.

 

Based on how things are at this moment in time, Derby are in a much better position. Here's a list of players (born 2000 onwards) to have played a league game for their club:
Forest: Johnson (4), Appiah (6), Mighten (8)
Derby: Bird (26), Bogle (77), JBrown (1), Buchanan (5), Sibley (11), Whittaker (16), Knight (31)

[SaintRam]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

When were they "Champions of Engalnd"?

I assume @Derbados is referring to their 'Premier Academy League' title in the 2000-01 season. The only honours they have as an academy. 

That's a flawed argument of course; as academy categories were not introduced until 2012.

[cannable]

3 hours ago, Derbados said:

Forests academy have also just been crowned champions of England. . . despite also not being category 1, which I’d suggest is a bigger achievement 

They have had players such as Lascelles, Darlow, Cash, Burke, Osbourne, Morgan, Bamford. All of which are or have played in the premier league, one even captained the side that won the premier league with Leicester 

then take into account the fees Forest received for those players

I get the fact that our academy is our jewel in the crown and it’s seen as blasphemous to even dare to question its end product 

but you cannot deny that up to now, Forests academy has ****** all over ours with nowhere near the levels of investment or category 1 status
 

 

 

 

Forest’s academy don’t play in the same league as Cat 1 teams 

[Ghost of Clough]

4 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

I assume @Derbados is referring to their 'Premier Academy League' title in the 2000-01 season. The only honours they have as an academy. 

That's a flawed argument of course; as academy categories were not introduced until 2012.

Wow! Using the success from 20 years ago to state their academy is better.

Our reserves won their national leagues in 2000*, 2001*, 2010 and 2011

 

*Leagues split North/South with no playoffs.

[cannable]

Barnes and Bale broke through in the same season and I do sometimes think ‘what if?’

[Spanish]

7 hours ago, Derbados said:

Forests academy have also just been crowned champions of England. . . despite also not being category 1, which I’d suggest is a bigger achievement 

 

 

4 hours ago, SaintRam said:

I assume @Derbados is referring to their 'Premier Academy League' title in the 2000-01 season. The only honours they have as an academy. 

That's a flawed argument of course; as academy categories were not introduced until 2012.

@Derbadoscan you provide some background on this information?

[SaintRam]

4 minutes ago, Spanish said:

 

@Derbadoscan you provide some background on this information?

Oh, on looking it up they finished top of the North division of the PDL.

I apologise for suggesting you were talking about a 20 year old achievement @Derbados ? 

The PDL though is for Category Two academies only - and the champion is only crowned when the two division winners meet (Forest and Watford) and it appears based on limited research that that game was never played.

[nottingram]

1 hour ago, SaintRam said:

Oh, on looking it up they finished top of the North division of the PDL.

I apologise for suggesting you were talking about a 20 year old achievement @Derbados ? 

The PDL though is for Category Two academies only - and the champion is only crowned when the two division winners meet (Forest and Watford) and it appears based on limited research that that game was never played.

So they were actually the joint best out of all the academies except the best ones, of which Derby are one. 

Why fact check?

[SaintRam]

3 minutes ago, nottingram said:

So they were actually the joint best out of all the academies except the best ones, of which Derby are one. 

Why fact check?

Because the statement was that it was a bigger achievement as they aren't a Cat One academy; but that doesn't make sense as they were only competing against Cat Two academies. 

We were confused as to how that conclusion had been made; thus, fact check.

[nottingram]

2 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Because the statement was that it was a bigger achievement as they aren't a Cat One academy; but that doesn't make sense as they were only competing against Cat Two academies. 

We were confused as to how that conclusion had been made; thus, fact check.

Sorry, didn’t make it clear but wasn’t meant as a dig at you, but at the original assertion that they are the “Champions of England” when a fact check as undertaken by yourself shows this up as completely false

[Abu Derby]

Yes, but for each Mattie Cash there’s a Bamford so there is equilibrium to a large extent. 

[JfR]

Forest were asking for £15m for Matty Cash. Villa have haggled and managed to get him for £16m.
I don't know if that's typical Forest selling or typical Villa buying.

[RoyMac5]

Just now, JfR said:

Villa have haggled and managed to get him for £16m.

£14m rising to £16m with addons according to SSN. Bargain?

[JfR]

7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

£14m rising to £16m with addons according to SSN. Bargain?

I'd say it's probably about right. He's been a very good player this season, but there's always the risks that a player won't make the step up or that he won't adjust from Forest's low-block style to Villa's more open play, in which case £14-16m would look like an expensive mistake. We've seen with Ben Chilwell's transfer that big clubs are happy to spend big money on full-backs nowadays though, so if he makes the grade at Villa he could prove to be a good investment if they sell him on.

[Rab a dab doo]

Sounds like Cash in bank for Forest to me

[GB SPORTS]

3 hours ago, JfR said:

I'd say it's probably about right. He's been a very good player this season, but there's always the risks that a player won't make the step up or that he won't adjust from Forest's low-block style to Villa's more open play, in which case £14-16m would look like an expensive mistake. We've seen with Ben Chilwell's transfer that big clubs are happy to spend big money on full-backs nowadays though, so if he makes the grade at Villa he could prove to be a good investment if they sell him on.

Cash is a good player, also i think he was played out of position last season. think he is better in midfield creating.

i

[NottsRam77]

29 minutes ago, SIXTEEN AGAIN said:

Cash is a good player, also i think he was played out of position last season. think he is better in midfield creating.

i

Well before last season he was playing midfield and my forest mates who are all STH all would have happily drove him to his destination of choice for 2m... not Cos he was bad just he was meh ... so so.. decent enough but 2m was decent money for him 

one season at full back and they seem to be on the verge of getting 16m for him 

 

 

[NottsRam77]

On 31/08/2020 at 20:39, reverendo de duivel said:

In the case of the first 3 you're talking decades ago, they've already retired.

Antonio is the only recent-ish sale to make an impact.

Everyone else recent has crashed and burned, they don't sell decent players, they sell average players for decent fees.

Not a bad skill to have, mind!

 

Forgot about 5m for Ben “smack bang average” Osborne 

it was 8m for Apphiah Iv been reliably informed 

how the duck do they do it lol

[RamNut]

5 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

£14m rising to £16m with addons according to SSN. Bargain?

Clearly Matty Cash is 3x as good as Will Hughes.

there is no other possible explanation 

[Abu Derby]

The fee we received for Will is now looking pathetic. Who sanctioned that pittance?