Coronavirus

[Gone]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

But they have more beds dedicated to Covid than just the 8 for intensive care. They had 75 other people on beds in other wards

Not what was reported 

[Albert]

1 minute ago, TexasRam said:

I know exactly what I said,  I didn’t say they lied because they didn’t but the way it was presented showed the extremes the MSM will go to continue to whip up the mass hysteria that we are seeing and reacting too in the UK. 
 

That was my whole point, cheers ?

...so, you presented what they said that way, while whinging about how the 'MSM' presents information..?

...

[Gone]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

...so, you presented what they said that way, while whinging about how the 'MSM' presents information..?

...

How do you mute someone on here?

[Ghost of Clough]

1 minute ago, TexasRam said:

let me know when it sinks in, they said their beds for Covid patients were full (8 of them) 

I must keep missing when they said that. Can you narrow it down for me?

https://www.itv.com/hub/itv-news-at-ten/2a4409a1264

[Gone]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I must keep missing when they said that. Can you narrow it down for me?

https://www.itv.com/hub/itv-news-at-ten/2a4409a1264

Have done already thanks 

[jimmyp]

2 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Have done already thanks 

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

[Gone]

1 minute ago, jimmyp said:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

They do don’t they, I think they’ve looked me up and quite like a bit of Texas. It’s not unusual for it to happen to be fair 

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Yes, you said they lied and then pointed out the the truth, to catch them in their lie. GhostOfClough pointed out that they never said the words you attributed to them which were wrong. What they stated was the truth, which you posted below, and claimed they said something different.

When I got figures wrong yesterday, I subsequently corrected myself. Later, a poster accused me of being a 'conspiracy theorist' when quoting the corrected figures which were sourced from Nottingham University's own website.

The problem is, for something to be accepted by somebody as 'truth', it has to fit their own narrative, totally and utterly. It is this polarisation over everything, this pathetic tribalism, this refusal to accept that an opinion could be wrong, often in the face of irrefutable evidence, that will cause strife and division for years to come.

[Wolfie]

[jimmyp]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

When I got figures wrong yesterday, I subsequently corrected myself. Later, a poster accused me of being a 'conspiracy theorist' when quoting the corrected figures which were sourced from Nottingham University's own website.

The problem is, for something to be accepted by somebody as 'truth', it has to fit their own narrative, totally and utterly. It is this polarisation over everything, this pathetic tribalism, this refusal to accept that an opinion could be wrong, often in the face of irrefutable evidence, that will cause strife and division for years to come.

No shame in getting something wrong as long as you have the decency to admit you got it wrong, either by correcting yourself or flat out admitting you were just wrong. 

Ignorance is rife. 

 

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, jimmyp said:

No shame in getting something wrong as long as you have the decency to admit you got it wrong, either by correcting yourself or flat out admitting you were just wrong. 

Ignorance is rife. 

 

It does seem a strange hole to keep digging. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

I don't get this "I don't care about what Australia did" argument. Surely you look for good practice and see how you can replicate it as best you can in your own scenario? If Australia has got back to normality (almost) I'd be focusing on what they did and doing my damnedest to repeat it.

Also I don't get what a "global hub" is. What does that mean? Does it mean we have a lot of people coming and going? I'm sure that's common to a lot of countries with big cities.

I think we've failed to give a clear concise message during our long lockdown, and allowed too much freedom for people while at the same time trying to stop them from doing things in public. When other countries were putting patrols on the street to prevent people from roaming around, we were allowing exercise walks and trips to crowded beaches and beauty spots. If we'd just made lockdown more stringent, more hard - maybe we would have reduced the virus down to a manageable level. If we hadn't spaffed money on a failed test and trace system, leaving us playing catch-up to get a working solution in, maybe we could have managed the second wave better as we'd have less to catch and be better prepared to catch them as they popped up. If we had got testing up to the levels it should have been, maybe we would have had capacity to handle demand, rather than failing to test adequately - resulting in infected people still being in the population. 

Long story short, I'm worried what the second wave will look like. It's clearly still growing, tracking the death counts - and the health professionals are expecting it to grow for some time. 

Now we seem to be in a halfway house of part lockdowns for some people and full lockdowns for others, in an attempt to allow as much economic activity as possible yet stopping the virus where it's bad. It just seems destined to fail doing it piecemeal. While factories and offices and schools and universities are still operating full of people, we'll not be able to bring down the numbers. And until we have better testing, I'm not sure what we can do. Testing seems to be the key to getting things under control. If one Chinese city can plan to test 9m people, why are we still testing such comparatively low numbers of people?

Only China, USA, India and Russia have carried out more tests than us.

Appears to be very little correlation between testing numbers and deaths.

[Gone]

3 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

It does seem a strange hole to keep digging. 

Or maybe the person is just right and plans to stick by his opinion on things on what’s said and how’s it said. Instead of bowing to the noisy minority......maybe 

[maxjam]

31 minutes ago, Albert said:

So, what you're saying is that even though there are countries that are denser, global hubs, all vastly different in their own ways, none of that matters because... well, different countries? What makes the UK so special that it can't control the virus? 

It's not naive to compare different efforts, what is naive is to work on an assumption of: 'well, it went poorly, so it was destined to'. 

I didn't list Vietnam as a global hub. You still haven't answered how those listed were not valid comparisons, and have subsisted on ad hoc deflections. 

What hurdles do you think they have that others don't? It's not population density, it's not being 'global hubs', it's not how their economy is structured either. This is just you arguing that 'well, because they failed, it was destined that it would happen'. 

I've not glossed over links you've posted. If you feel I have, I am happy to go back over and discuss a previous one. 

When discussing global hubs, I pointed out Taiwan (which indeed does have a massive amount of international travel per year), Hong Kong (which acts as it's own country), Korea and Singapore as key examples. 

Equally, you've continued to gloss over a key point time and time again, and that is that international travel has fallen off a cliff since the start of the pandemic. This goes along with the question of why, if 'being a global hub' was the driver behind the UK's issues with controlling the virus that they haven't made the choice to shut that all down. As discussed earlier, Australia's airline business per capita was larger, but the country elected to take that hit for the good of their people. You're arguing that the UK hasn't, but haven't said anything on this matter beyond that. 

Yet, here you are back again. 

I don't feel it's 'stalled' at all at this point. There are a number of points that you are point blank refusing to answer, and have done so for a while. It seems you're not really trying to 'back out', but rather 'back away' from those points without answering them. 

Not getting into it all again as it has 'stalled'.  I have not glossed over subjects and have answered questions with personal opinion, links or examples to back up the points I believe in.  You are stuck on your points, I believe in mine - its therefore not going anywhere, so we're done.

As an example, and a question that was raised by @GboroRam lets briefly look at 'global hubs'.  The UK and Taiwan for example maybe global hubs, but have vastly different economies.  Comparing the Service sector, Agriculture or Industry of each country shows massive differences - which will inevitably play a role in how well the country is able to lockdown internally and avoid reinfection from external sources.  Maybe if you broadened your research you would understand why trying to compare the UK or Taiwan or Vietnam etc is frivolous.

To glibly compare the two shows that the conversation has stalled. I am not backing away from any conversation, just not got the time or energy to continue going around in circles.  Furthermore, as others have noted, it is getting tedious to read.

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Not getting into it all again as it has 'stalled'.  I have not glossed over subjects and have answered questions with personal opinion, links or examples to back up the points I believe in.  You are stuck on your points, I believe in mine - its therefore not going anywhere, so we're done.

As noted, my concern is that you've outright ignored some fairly key points. 

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

As an example, and a question that was raised by @GboroRam lets briefly look at 'global hubs'.  The UK and Taiwan for example maybe global hubs, but have vastly different economies.  Comparing the Service sector, Agriculture or Industry of each country shows massive differences - which will inevitably play a role in how well the country is able to lockdown internally and avoid reinfection from external sources.  Maybe if you broadened your research you would understand why trying to compare the UK or Taiwan or Vietnam etc is frivolous.

It's interesting that you keep narrowing your points so much. Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand have all be discussed. All have vastly different characteristics, and have achieved their position through different means. You've kept going with these ad hoc points, as opposed to discussing what makes the UK so special.

It's also interesting you've yet again ignored key points to yet again target a narrow subset you feel comfortable sniping at. 

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

To glibly compare the two shows that the conversation has stalled. I am not backing away from any conversation, just not got the time or energy to continue going around in circles.  Furthermore, as others have noted, it is getting tedious to read.

You've apparently not got the time or energy to respond to points you don't feel you have answers for. 

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Only China, USA, India and Russia have carried out more tests than us.

Appears to be very little correlation between testing numbers and deaths.

Tests per capita is a better measure, but the bigger point is about how the testing is used, rather than the raw numbers. Australia, Korea, New Zealand, etc made great use of testing and tracing as part of their response, and the key in those cases is that testing is most effective as part of the process once things are under control, and the data can be used effectively. Really, the key is making sure that the positive rate on tests performed is low, as this implies that you are likely catching most of the symptomatic cases at the very least, eg Australia and New Zealand have a positive test rates of about ~0.1%, while the UK is at about 5.4% at the moment. 

[maxjam]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

It's interesting that you keep narrowing your points so much. Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand have all be discussed. All have vastly different characteristics, and have achieved their position through different means. You've kept going with these ad hoc points, as opposed to discussing what makes the UK so special.

You bought up Taiwan and Vietnam as examples!!!

 

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

You've apparently not got the time or energy to respond to points you don't feel you have answers for.

 

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

Tests per capita is a better measure, but the bigger point is about how the testing is used, rather than the raw numbers. Australia, Korea, New Zealand, etc made great use of testing and tracing as part of their response, and the key in those cases is that testing is most effective as part of the process once things are under control, and the data can be used effectively. Really, the key is making sure that the positive rate on tests performed is low, as this implies that you are likely catching most of the symptomatic cases at the very least, eg Australia and New Zealand have a positive test rates of about ~0.1%, while the UK is at about 5.4% at the moment. 

UK is 18th for tests per capita.

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

UK is 18th for tests per capita.

relegation form

[Ghost of Clough]

21 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Have done already thanks 

I'll help you

7:43, "Their Covid unit is full".
8:20, "We are full in the Covid unit. We may spill over into the other intensive care unit".
8:35, "Caring for all 8 Covid patients in intensive care and there are 75 others in wards".
10:05 "This is the first time the intensive care unit has been full since the first wave of the pandemic"

[Gone]

1 minute ago, Ghost of Clough said:

7:43, "Their Covid unit is full".
8:20, "We are full in the Covid unit. We may spill over into the other intensive care unit".

There you go, what I said. Thank you for clearing up, my messages are open for apologies @jimmyp@GboroRam @Eddie. I won’t hold my breath