Coronavirus

[Uptherams]

6 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

What % or number of young people not killed by the virus are permanently injured ? It’s a tiny tiny proportion. People get aftereffects from  all sorts of illness, we don’t shot down a completely society for it.

Dare I say it, vaccinations too ?

[Uptherams]

The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 24 April 2020 (Week 17) was 21,997, a decrease of 354 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 16); this is the first decrease in the number of deaths since the week ending 20 March 2020 (Week 12) but is 11,539 more than the five-year average for Week 17.

Of the deaths registered in Week 17, 8,237 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, which is 37.4% of all deaths; this is a decrease of 521 deaths compared with Week 16 (39.2% of all deaths).

 

Excess deaths 11,539

Total reported Covid deaths 8,237

Excess deaths excluding Covid 3,302

 

[Mostyn6]

@SchtivePesley the bloke’s got three full time jobs, does loads of charity and volunteer work, but “professionally” is questionable for not either censoring or challenging people who reply on Twitter? Riiiiiiiiggghhhhhttt. 
 

is there anything specifically about his speech you can challenge? Out of interest  

[Albert]

1 minute ago, Uptherams said:

The provisional number of deaths registered in England and Wales in the week ending 24 April 2020 (Week 17) was 21,997, a decrease of 354 deaths registered compared with the previous week (Week 16); this is the first decrease in the number of deaths since the week ending 20 March 2020 (Week 12) but is 11,539 more than the five-year average for Week 17.

Of the deaths registered in Week 17, 8,237 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, which is 37.4% of all deaths; this is a decrease of 521 deaths compared with Week 16 (39.2% of all deaths).

 

Excess deaths 11,539

Total reported Covid deaths 8,237

Excess deaths excluding Covid 3,302

 

Yes, these are indeed the excess deaths worth talking about. The ones that don't disappear once you take the longer term averages, and tended with the total Covid deaths. 

To repeat, there's been a 60k increase in deaths over the 5 year average this year, while only just under 42k has been attributed to Covid. Over the last 12 weeks, as noted in the previous posts, there's been no increase against the 5 year average for this period. 

As noted in the posts you chose to ignore, like because it's devastating to your argument, this is why it's been suggested that the UK's official figures are a significant underestimate of the total Covid deaths in the country. Equally, there exists no evidence for any statistically significant number of deaths from lock down, etc. 

[Gone]

14 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

For so called fanboys of science and data and facts, they all post precious few of them. Hardly surprising though because so often they can't interpret it themselves. Some far left organisation has to tell them what the talking points are and should be ?

I don’t get it, and don’t get why they can’t see it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, people have become so sacred of dying they are afraid to live. It’s sad 

[maxjam]

3 minutes ago, Albert said:

As noted in the posts you chose to ignore, like because it's devastating to your argument, this is why it's been suggested that the UK's official figures are a significant underestimate of the total Covid deaths in the country. Equally, there exists no evidence for any statistically significant number of deaths from lock down, etc. 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

[Albert]

2 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I don’t get it, and don’t get why they can’t see it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, people have become so sacred of dying they are afraid to live. It’s sad 

As someone in a country where life is going on pretty much as normal, I'd say the opposite. People are so scared of missing out that they aren't taking the time to fix the problem so life can go on. 

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, Albert said:

As noted in the posts you chose to ignore, like because it's devastating to your argument, this is why it's been suggested that the UK's official figures are a significant underestimate of the total Covid deaths in the country. Equally, there exists no evidence for any statistically significant number of deaths from lock down, etc. 

Not to mention the human cost of;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-730-000-have-lost-their-job-since-lockdown-began-12046850

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-jobs-that-dont-fit-with-covid-19-may-take-a-long-time-to-come-back-12084944

[Albert]

Just now, maxjam said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-lockdown-may-have-indirectly-caused-16-000-excess-deaths-study-12044923

If you actually read this, it covered the same data, from an earlier period of time, and neglected to mention that the number of excess deaths trended with the number of Covid deaths. This was a feature noted in the previously linked article. This suggests that these excess deaths are largely Covid cases that were not counted on the official tally. If they weren't they wouldn't have kept such a tight trend with with the number of Covid deaths. 

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Not to mention the human cost of;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-730-000-have-lost-their-job-since-lockdown-began-12046850

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-jobs-that-dont-fit-with-covid-19-may-take-a-long-time-to-come-back-12084944

As noted, these costs are associated with the pandemic more generally too. Countries that did early lockdowns well, with strong testing regimes and contact tracing have been able to return to a sense of normality already. The UK, which failed to do this, and have gone for bits and pieces responses, is stuck in the position it is now as a result of its government's choices, and that is what is causing those issues. 

[Uptherams]

Unbelievable.

Your own figures 60k excess deaths thus far. 42k are Covid related. Excess deaths not Covid are trending higher than previously. So that almost 2:1 ratio will become smaller. 

42k is statistically significant?

But 18k isn't?

????

It's all statistically significant. 

 

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

@SchtivePesley the bloke’s got three full time jobs, does loads of charity and volunteer work, but “professionally” is questionable for not either censoring or challenging people who reply on Twitter? Riiiiiiiiggghhhhhttt.

Ah OK - is "being busy" an excuse then. You're missing my point really. If I had three full time jobs (how does that even work?) and also squoze in lots of charity and volunteering, I'd probably be very happy with myself and think - that bit where I peddle conspiracy theories to some very vulnerable people and also some deeply unpleasant people? I could probably knock that bit on the head.

8 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

is there anything specifically about his speech you can challenge? Out of interest

well I could start with the bit where he expresses his deep love for everyone there who might disagree with him, and that hate and division is bad, love and unity is good. Nice sentiment - but how does that stack up against his twitter feed where he stokes hate and division constantly? His whole act is based on hate and division as far as I can see.

 

 

 

[maxjam]

4 minutes ago, Albert said:

If you actually read this, it covered the same data, from an earlier period of time, and neglected to mention that the number of excess deaths trended with the number of Covid deaths. This was a feature noted in the previously linked article. This suggests that these excess deaths are largely Covid cases that were not counted on the official tally. If they weren't they wouldn't have kept such a tight trend with with the number of Covid deaths. 

Read the article and several others like it.  Spin it however you want but the lockdown has resulted in non-covid related excess deaths and will contribute to significantly more over the coming months and years.

It will be interesting to see how deadly this second wave is as to whether it justifies both the human and economic cost of continued lockdown restrictions.  Personally I feel as though we're willing putting our head in a financial noose.

 

[Uptherams]

23 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I don’t get it, and don’t get why they can’t see it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, people have become so sacred of dying they are afraid to live. It’s sad 

"40,000 people are dead because of Covid." 

"It might be 39,999."

"Wow, you aren't taking this seriously. Your lack of empathy for people who die is disgusting. You clearly think you can and should just be able to do what you want and there be no measures. You have blood on your hands".

"I wear a mask indoors in public places". 

"You shouldn't even be going in to public places, you're still causing people to die". 

Something like this ?

[Mostyn6]

9 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

Ah OK - is "being busy" an excuse then. You're missing my point really. If I had three full time jobs (how does that even work?) and also squoze in lots of charity and volunteering, I'd probably be very happy with myself and think - that bit where I peddle conspiracy theories to some very vulnerable people and also some deeply unpleasant people? I could probably knock that bit on the head.

well I could start with the bit where he expresses his deep love for everyone there who might disagree with him, and that hate and division is bad, love and unity is good. Nice sentiment - but how does that stack up against his twitter feed where he stokes hate and division constantly? His whole act is based on hate and division as far as I can see.

 

 

 

I can see why you ruined the politics thread now. 

[Uptherams]

23 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Not to mention the human cost of;

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-730-000-have-lost-their-job-since-lockdown-began-12046850

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-jobs-that-dont-fit-with-covid-19-may-take-a-long-time-to-come-back-12084944

Lefties 2010-2020. Austerity kills. 

Far right ? 2010-2020. Unfortunately it does. Services need to remain open and funded.

Far right ? 2020. Austerity kills.

Lefties 2020. It's statistically insignificant.

 

[Albert]

7 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Read the article and several others like it.  Spin it however you want but the lockdown has resulted in non-covid related excess deaths and will contribute to significantly more over the coming months and years.

It will be interesting to see how deadly this second wave is as to whether it justifies both the human and economic cost of continued lockdown restrictions.  Personally I feel as though we're willing putting our head in a financial noose.

 

...I did read the article. The only 'evidence' it presented was the same figure for excess deaths, which is simply not consistent with the conclusion they try and draw, but is consistent with underestimates of covid deaths, which is consistent with the effect seen elsewhere.

I've tried to source the original report, but have had issues finding a copy. Do you happen to have access to it? 

11 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Unbelievable.

Your own figures 60k excess deaths thus far. 42k are Covid related. Excess deaths not Covid are trending higher than previously. So that almost 2:1 ratio will become smaller. 

42k is statistically significant?

But 18k isn't?

????

It's all statistically significant. 

 

As noted, those 18k occurred in line with main share of deaths from Covid, as in, trended directly with them. This has been cited as evidence that the UK is systematically underestimating the total number of deaths from the pandemic. 

The second point is that these excess deaths simply dried up once the covid deaths did, again reinforcing this point. If lockdowns, etc were causing these deaths, they wouldn't have disappeared, as shown in the previous posts. 

[Gone]

29 minutes ago, Albert said:

As someone in a country where life is going on pretty much as normal, I'd say the opposite. People are so scared of missing out that they aren't taking the time to fix the problem so life can go on. 

I love your country and all the people in it 

[Gone]

11 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

"40,000 people are dead because of Covid." 

"It might be 39,999."

"Wow, you aren't taking this seriously. Your lack of empathy for people who die is disgusting. You clearly think you can and should just be able to do what you want and there be no measures. You have blood on your hands".

"I wear a mask indoors in public places". 

"You shouldn't even be going in to public places, you're still causing people to die". 

Something like this ?

I actually feel like a villain to be honest 

[Uptherams]

2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

I can see why you ruined the politics thread now. 

No it was me ? 

I've got two warnings in 8 years, even with Gboro ready to pounce.

Totally worth it too.

Let's all compare. 

I'd love to know my ratio of warnings to how many of my posts are reported. 

?

I still don't know what happened in that thread that weekend. I hadn't looked at it all weekend and came back to reports it's now gone because shots had been fired.