Coronavirus

[Eddie]

41 minutes ago, Albert said:

What is with people downplaying concerns by labelling people they disagree with as 'left' or 'right'.

There seems to be a group (clique, sect, cult - call it what you will) who will back and defend anything, any act, any policy, any statement, made by the current government on the grounds that '...it would have been worse under Corbyn' - and when one of the cult post something, the other 5 or so pile in with their support. This thread has become an extension of the old 'politics' thread.

An observation - the majority of most vociferous pandemic-deniers and down-players seem to be pro-government pro-'B'-word, anti-science (or at the very least scientific cherry-pickers).

I'm not a socialist by any means, although I have been labelled as such frequently on here - but having been a scientist for my entire life (for the first 15 years of my working life that scientific background was pharmaceutical research), I am, by association, the 'opposition' - and I often find myself embroiled in heated arguments, especially when 'bad science' is involved. My biggest fault is that I cannot tolerate stupidity, consequently I spend much of my time on the 'naughty step' because if I think that a poster is pants-on-head stupid, I tell them so in no uncertain terms. So from now on, I'm back to putting the 'misguided' posters on ignore (3 so far - I suspect that will increase to 6 shortly) and letting those with a much higher tolerance threshold deal with it.

[Norman]

26 minutes ago, Eddie said:

There seems to be a group (clique, sect, cult - call it what you will) who will back and defend anything, any act, any policy, any statement, made by the current government on the grounds that '...it would have been worse under Corbyn' - and when one of the cult post something, the other 5 or so pile in with their support. This thread has become an extension of the old 'politics' thread.

An observation - the majority of most vociferous pandemic-deniers and down-players seem to be pro-government pro-'B'-word, anti-science (or at the very least scientific cherry-pickers).

I'm not a socialist by any means, although I have been labelled as such frequently on here - but having been a scientist for my entire life (for the first 15 years of my working life that scientific background was pharmaceutical research), I am, by association, the 'opposition' - and I often find myself embroiled in heated arguments, especially when 'bad science' is involved. My biggest fault is that I cannot tolerate stupidity, consequently I spend much of my time on the 'naughty step' because if I think that a poster is pants-on-head stupid, I tell them so in no uncertain terms. So from now on, I'm back to putting the 'misguided' posters on ignore (3 so far - I suspect that will increase to 6 shortly) and letting those with a much higher tolerance threshold deal with it.

Says the man who says he worked on the stock market for years.

I'm not pro-government on this. I'm not defending them either. I think I may be doing the opposite. 

Nor do I deny that we are in a pandemic with virus killing thousands and thousands of people.

Nor am I denying the science. 

I just don't think the Lockdown measures currently in place outweigh the long term problems that include hospitals not working to capacity, further austerity measures, further Lockdown measures that make no sense, further laws being passed overnight, mental health issues doubling etc.

You cannot lump people who disagree with you politically, into a bandwagon that pushes all their views into one united one. We don't all have the same views. I don't agree with some of the stuff @Uptherams posts, for example. But you're happy to generalise.

That's not fair and is blatant innacurate hyperbole. 

[Rev]

42 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Thats a key point, lockdowns only work if there is a vaccine - hide from the problem until you can vaccinate against it.

No vaccine = inevitable 2nd and 3rd waves etc, more lockdowns and economic misery.  Either that or herd immunity.  What a choice ?

Worse still.

How about no vaccine, you can get it multiple times, so little or no herd immunity?

What the hell happens then, and is anyone making plans for such a scenario?

 

[ariotofmyown]

32 minutes ago, Eddie said:

There seems to be a group (clique, sect, cult - call it what you will) who will back and defend anything, any act, any policy, any statement, made by the current government on the grounds that '...it would have been worse under Corbyn' - and when one of the cult post something, the other 5 or so pile in with their support. This thread has become an extension of the old 'politics' thread.

An observation - the majority of most vociferous pandemic-deniers and down-players seem to be pro-government pro-'B'-word, anti-science (or at the very least scientific cherry-pickers).

I'm not a socialist by any means, although I have been labelled as such frequently on here - but having been a scientist for my entire life (for the first 15 years of my working life that scientific background was pharmaceutical research), I am, by association, the 'opposition' - and I often find myself embroiled in heated arguments, especially when 'bad science' is involved. My biggest fault is that I cannot tolerate stupidity, consequently I spend much of my time on the 'naughty step' because if I think that a poster is pants-on-head stupid, I tell them so in no uncertain terms. So from now on, I'm back to putting the 'misguided' posters on ignore (3 so far - I suspect that will increase to 6 shortly) and letting those with a much higher tolerance threshold deal with it.

Not sure that is correct anymore. Whilst the government initially had broad support from the type of people you refer to @Eddie, that seems to have evaporated now. It's a similar story on a Tory forum I sometimes read.

The dangerous radicalism that Johnson thrived on to gain power has taken hold now. Where we go next is crucial...we may not have many chances left to turn things around. 

[May Contain Nuts]

11 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Worse still.

How about no vaccine, you can get it multiple times, so little or no herd immunity?

What the hell happens then, and is anyone making plans for such a scenario?

 

Yeah, these guys

 

[Rev]

Just now, Coconut said:

Yeah, these guys

 

What a way to urn a living!

[ariotofmyown]

12 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Worse still.

How about no vaccine, you can get it multiple times, so little or no herd immunity?

What the hell happens then, and is anyone making plans for such a scenario?

 

Plans no. But I'm sure we'll have a 3 sentence slogan comprised of just 6 words.

No vaccine. No immunity. Go quietly.

[Mostyn6]

Just now, reverendo de duivel said:

What a way to urn a living!

I’m coffin with laughter. 

[Norman]

They reckon if we do get one it will be the end of 2021 when it is rolled out. 

One in Australia is in Phase 3 of 4, but it doesn't protect you from Covid fully.

The other 4 or 5 that have reached Phase 3 include labs in Beijing and Wuhan.

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

They reckon if we do get one it will be the end of 2021 when it is rolled out. 

One in Australia is in Phase 3 of 4, but it doesn't protect you from Covid fully.

The other 4 or 5 that have reached Phase 3 include labs in Beijing and Wuhan.

The one thing that is certain is there will not be any jobs left in Britain if we continue to shut down until then. 

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Not sure that is correct anymore. Whilst the government initially had broad support from the type of people you refer to @Eddie, that seems to have evaporated now. It's a similar story on a Tory forum I sometimes read.

The dangerous radicalism that Johnson thrived on to gain power has taken hold now. Where we go next is crucial...we may not have many chances left to turn things around. 

I was going to add something about dichotomy, but in the end decided that it might confuse the issue (no surprise there). 

[Rev]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

The one thing that is certain is there will not be any jobs left in Britain if we continue to shut down until then. 

Why do you say that?

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Why do you say that?

Over the top, but the hospitality sector can't really take much more of a battering.

[Rev]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Over the top, but the hospitality sector can't really take much more of a battering.

True, it's time for some sector specific support for hospitality.

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, Norman said:

Says the man who says he worked on the stock market for years.

I'm not pro-government on this. I'm not defending them either. I think I may be doing the opposite. 

Nor do I deny that we are in a pandemic with virus killing thousands and thousands of people.

Nor am I denying the science. 

I just don't think the Lockdown measures currently in place outweigh the long term problems that include hospitals not working to capacity, further austerity measures, further Lockdown measures that make no sense, further laws being passed overnight, mental health issues doubling etc.

You cannot lump people who disagree with you politically, into a bandwagon that pushes all their views into one united one. We don't all have the same views. I don't agree with some of the stuff @Uptherams posts, for example. But you're happy to generalise.

That's not fair and is blatant innacurate hyperbole. 

Pretty much this tbh.

The person you are replying to seems to have a history of calling people he disagrees with 'misguided' for the want of a better word ?

I backed the first lockdown and have followed all the guidelines but does that mean I have to blindly follow a second lockdown (or a third) when we have much more data available to us now - some of which indicates the overwhelming majority of younger, healthier people are by and large okay. 

Surely its prudent to discuss the long term damage we could be doing to our economy and tailing any future lockdowns to target the more vulnerable of society so the rest of us can get back to earning a living and enjoying ourselves.

But nope, its seems as though we're a clique, a sect or a cult that just want to pile in supporting each other.  Well if supporting open discussion and not blindly following doctrine that I disagree with makes me a cultist, its probably a cult I want to be a part of tbh.

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

True, it's time for some sector specific support for hospitality.

I'm sure I read somewhere that DCFC would take a £6m hospitality hit this season with no fans?

[Rev]

11 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I'm sure I read somewhere that DCFC would take a £6m hospitality hit this season with no fans?

I think that is the ballpark based on previous accounts. Although I think that was just the corporate hospitality, not the overall take from beer and food etc.

[Norman]

38 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Pretty much this tbh.

The person you are replying to seems to have a history of calling people he disagrees with 'misguided' for the want of a better word ?

I backed the first lockdown and have followed all the guidelines but does that mean I have to blindly follow a second lockdown (or a third) when we have much more data available to us now - some of which indicates the overwhelming majority of younger, healthier people are by and large okay. 

Surely its prudent to discuss the long term damage we could be doing to our economy and tailing any future lockdowns to target the more vulnerable of society so the rest of us can get back to earning a living and enjoying ourselves.

But nope, its seems as though we're a clique, a sect or a cult that just want to pile in supporting each other.  Well if supporting open discussion and not blindly following doctrine that I disagree with makes me a cultist, its probably a cult I want to be a part of tbh.

Words chosen carefully. Could have stopped at gang, but sect and cult are little sly digs to make you sound crazy. Make your opinions seem worthy of being dismissed as nonsense. 

Worked at the Stock Exchange, spent years computer programming.... But all along he was a scientist. 

Specialising in Science Fiction. 

[Rev]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

Words chosen carefully. Could have stopped at gang, but sect and cult are little sly digs to make you sound crazy. Make your opinions seem worthy of being dismissed as nonsense. 

Worked at the Stock Exchange, spent years computer programming... But all along, he was a scientist. 

Specialising in Science Fiction. 

Whether true or not that's amusing.

[Chester40]

10 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

That's obvious aye - but you do realise that more testing means you get more of your "normal" world back (and sooner)?

That world doesn't return because we have lower numbers just because we stop testing - it returns when we have an effective way of tracking and controlling the transmission by identifying every case as early as possible through testing

 

Is that true? My feeling is all we are hearing is 'numbers are rising.. lockdown needs to happen...general public arent following guidelines'. 

It literally feels like everyone I know is either going for a test or are self isolating (because their Nan's postman may have symptoms). 

The agenda is being pushed by the increase in positive tests, there is very little discussion about the result of these positive tests (ie children in general have minor symptoms). 

Testing is ridiculously patchy too, people with no symptoms just getting them 'in case', then often taking 3-4 days to return. I likewise know of families who say they are keeping their children off school as they have symptoms and are getting a test, who then suddenly turn up at school two days later having not had a test because they found out the test centre was 50 miles away and they don't drive. 

Thr government has made an absolute horlicks of it. Jumping around from one stool to another with a total lack of clear guidance on the risks. There is precious little information coming out, other than 'more people are testing positive', no context, no explanation of data, no understanding of the risks for people. No wonder people are running scared.