maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 37 minutes ago, Highgate said: Any reasonable human being should have been upset about Trump's victory. Well we'll have to agree to disagree about the rest ?, bringing it back to purely politics however it may be a surprise to some that despite being a free speech advocate and brexiteer I still consider myself a fairly central slight left leaning individual. I have never voted Tory in my life and care greatly about the environment. However... I don't see Trump or the Tories as evil incarnate. They have done some good and deserve some credit. They have however also done a lot of stuff I don't agree with - but only in line with their ideologies, I don't really blame them for doing what they do. I blame the inability of the left to form a cohesive opposition and the progressive left for pushing the narrative in a direction that most 'normal' people simply don't recognise or understand and therefore will never vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said: Please refrain from spitting during these difficult times. Stopping me from spitting would be a breach of my new found llama rights and you my friend, are discriminating against me and my four legged friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: I've contacted Fred, head of the LIPL (Llama Identity Protection League) and I'm afraid he wasn't overly impressed... Never did like Fred. He's too left wing for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I'm sure this has been talked about before on here but right wing vs left wing is such a simplification. I always prefer the political compass approach, where you have 2 axis. One is free market vs state controlled, and the other is authoritarian vs liberal. https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2 Using this view, both Johnson and Trump seem to have both moved left* and less liberal than they previously seemed to be. *at least in what they claim to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Just now, maxjam said: Well we'll have to agree to disagree about the rest ?, bringing it back to purely politics however it may be a surprise to some that despite being a free speech advocate and brexiteer I still consider myself a fairly central slight left leaning individual. I have never voted Tory in my life and care greatly about the environment. However... I don't see Trump or the Tories as evil incarnate. They have done some good and deserve some credit. They have however also done a lot of stuff I don't agree with - but only in line with their ideologies, I don't really blame them for doing what they do. I blame the inability of the left to form a cohesive opposition and the progressive left for pushing the narrative in a direction that most 'normal' people simply don't recognise or understand and therefore will never vote for. It's strange isn't it that caring for the environment or being worried about global warming is considered to be a left of centre political position. If that is the case, and given that we have just one Earth for everyone and those on the Left are the only ones who care about it, then it's settled, the Left are the good guys and the Right is evil. No clearer indication needed, end of story. But it shouldn't be like that, people on the Right could care about the environment and still be on the right. What's to stop them? Any yet, why is it that currently you'll find far more concern for the planet on the left that you will on the right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: I'm sure this has been talked about before on here but right wing vs left wing is such a simplification. I always prefer the political compass approach, where you have 2 axis. One is free market vs state controlled, and the other is authoritarian vs liberal. https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2 Using this view, both Johnson and Trump seem to have both moved left* and less liberal than they previously seemed to be. *at least in what they claim to do Answered as best I could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Never did like Fred. He's too left wing for me. I didn't get a chance to quiz Fred on his political stance, but I suspect if he was truly left wing, he'd have embraced your wishes with open hooves. Live and let llama and all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Highgate said: It's strange isn't it that caring for the environment or being worried about global warming is considered to be a left of centre political position. If that is the case, and given that we have just one Earth for everyone and those on the Left are the only ones who care about it, then it's settled, the Left are the good guys and the Right is evil. No clearer indication needed, end of story. But it shouldn't be like that, people on the Right could care about the environment and still be on the right. What's to stop them? Any yet, why is it that currently you'll find far more concern for the planet on the left that you will on the right? Agree. I don't understand a lot of things atm. Free speech is another example, it should be a universal right not a right wing agenda. I believe in unleashing people's potential, the free market and (controlled) capitalism. But I also believe in the NHS. the welfare state and renationalisation. Harking back to the Joe Rogan/Bernie Sanders endorsement comment I made a few posts back, because of certain right wing views I hold and the fact I don't suffer from Trump (or Tory) derangement syndrome I am no longer welcomed by the current vocal left which I guess is why I criticise them the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 39 minutes ago, maxjam said: I don't see Trump or the Tories as evil incarnate. They have done some good and deserve some credit. They have however also done a lot of stuff I don't agree with - but only in line with their ideologies, I don't really blame them for doing what they do. I blame the inability of the left to form a cohesive opposition and the progressive left for pushing the narrative in a direction that most 'normal' people simply don't recognise or understand and therefore will never vote for. This. Perfectly put. Unfortunately, if you dont display pure hatred for Trump and The Conservatives you are assumed to be a sympathiser and far right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 43 minutes ago, maxjam said: Answered as best I could Same section as me. It's just an echo chamber on here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: This. Perfectly put. Unfortunately, if you dont display pure hatred for Trump and The Conservatives you are assumed to be a sympathiser and far right. Something of an exaggeration. Unfortunately Trump and some of the current Tories like to pander to the authoritarian right though, as opposed to the far right economically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 20/04/2020 at 22:18, CWC1983 said: Quite an interesting thread if you have 10 mins. What's happening with this? Has any evidence been provided yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: This. Perfectly put. Unfortunately, if you dont display pure hatred for Trump and The Conservatives you are assumed to be a sympathiser and far right. While folk with socialist views are derided as SJWs, virtue signallers, the loony left or (shudder) activists. Two-bob hyperbole is not the exclusive province of the left, as this very thread clearly confirms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 34 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: Same section as me. It's just an echo chamber on here ? Me too - go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: While folk with socialist views are derided as SJWs, virtue signallers, the loony left or (shudder) activists. Two-bob hyperbole is not the exclusive province of the left, as this very thread clearly confirms. True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Me too - go figure Ha! You are Tiny Hands Trump and I claim my fiver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, bigbadbob said: What's happening with this? Has any evidence been provided yet? Sweet duck all ??twitter and Hootsuite have found zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Gordon Bennett, me & old maxjam ain’t that different. ? Although I think he’s cleverer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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