Will Hughes Hair Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 So the planning for the future starts now. I've been thinking about the remit Mr Cocu was given when he signed his 4 year contract and it surely had to be to establish us as a Premier League side. So using my special crystal ball I've been thinking about who may feature in a 27 man squad for the final year of that contract. I've highlighted those that I think could be part of that squad and based on the squad being 3 goalkeepers; 8 defenders; 8 midfielders and 8 attackers I make us 9 players short. When I think about which players would be week in week out starters it's down to Bogle, Bielik, Lowe and then perhaps two or three out of Sibley, Archie Brown, Bird, Knight and Whittaker. So not only are we short on depth we are 5 or 6 high quality players short. Why's this important? Because in my eyes the best way to play in the Premier League is to play with PL standard players. Yes we could buy them once we're promoted but that doesn't help us to get promoted and it's a hell of an integration in one pre-season that relies on players being available and at the right price. I think we need to take a more considered approach and utilise the next transfer window to focus on bringing in one or two quality additions to help the team evolve as an ongoing strategy. For this reason (along with rumoured investment and the arrival of Wazza) I suspect January is going to be a very interesting month. Goalkeepers Carson (34); Roos (27); Hamer (32); Mitchell (25); Ravas (22) Defenders Wisdom (26); Forsyth (30); Bogle (19); Lowe (22); Davies (34); Keogh (33); Clarke (23); Malone (28); Buchanan (18) Midfielders Shinnie (28); Bielik (21); Huddlestone (32); Dowell (22); Sibley (18); Bird (19); Knight (18); Paterson (27); Josefzoon (28); Evans (25); Holmes (25); Anya (31); Thorne (26) Attackers Waghorn (29); Lawrence (25); Marriott (25); Martin (31); Bennett (23); Rooney (34); Mitchell-Lawson (20); Whitaker (18); A Brown (17); Trialist (21) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Bit of a pointless thread in all honesty. Fans have proven time and time again to either underrate or overrate our players drastically, including what they assume to be Premier League quality and what isn't - Hendrick, Hughes, Martin etc are all cases in point. Half of those you've named have shown something in youth football, and whilst promising, have done basically nothing at a senior level - and we've seen that time and time again too... Callum Ball anyone? Add to that, 4 years is an eternity in football. Shinnie and Malone will be 32, for example, not going to bet a lot on either of them being good enough for next season let alone in 4 years time. Finally, team is far more important than individuals. Need players that fit together and possess the attributes to carry out the manager's plan. No one, even now, is looking at Sheffield United and saying they ooze Premier League players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Maybe I've not really made my point. Over the last decade we have consistently made 'sticking plaster' signings and very few who you could imagine developing to be part of successful premier league team. For instance, when we signed Butterfield I think the question foremost in the club's mind was 'can he replicate his goal scoring form with Huddersfield?' when we should have asked 'is this guy capable of delivering in the Premier League when we get there?'. Ask the first question and you sign ham, ask the second and you don't. I also think that the thread also debunks the idea that permanent signings will block the path of our academy players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 That's a bit harsh @Srg - there are lots of threads that are less thought-provoking than this. I do think that if we are going to sign (or develop) premier league quality players we have to do it gradually, hence the four year plan. It also means that due to FFP we may temporarily have to accept compromise in other areas of the pitch. For example, investing in Bielik has probably meant we couldn't similarly get in quite the level of talent we need in other areas, at the same time, hence the loans. I think Clarke has the quality, but not so sure about the other two. At least with loans we can send them back and try someone else next year. Similarly with FFP we will never be able to afford to buy in the number of premier league quality players all at once to help get us there so we do have to hope that Mel's investment in the academy over several years will be able to home grow some of those quality players ourselves. Callum Ball was a long time ago now from days when the academy had much less investment than it does now. I think it's more acceptable to be getting a little bit excited about the current crop of players who are competing at the very top of PL2 these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 I was going to edit the above post to change the ham to him, but I'm going to run the risk of upsetting @Warren Hobhead and let it stand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I also agree with most of your list @Will Hughes Hair with one or two exceptions. I probably wouldn't have Bennett in there (much as I want it to be true) as I don't think he has a winner's mentality. Other than that I think you're pretty much spot on. For this reason alone, if we could afford only one quality player in January it has to be a centre back - by far the weakest area of the pitch in our current situation. Worryingly it's also the weakest area of academy development unless Max Hunt comes back from Aldershot a man. But I do like your concept that we stop buying players to get us promoted and start investing in a long term future for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Nothing wrong with the thread,I’m thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said: I’m thinking That's a first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 22 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: That's a first! It’s taking a long time and what I’ve come up with won’t go down well. Chris Martin is good enough,Jack Marriott isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, angieram said: I also agree with most of your list @Will Hughes Hair with one or two exceptions. I probably wouldn't have Bennett in there (much as I want it to be true) as I don't think he has a winner's mentality. Other than that I think you're pretty much spot on. For this reason alone, if we could afford only one quality player in January it has to be a centre back - by far the weakest area of the pitch in our current situation. Worryingly it's also the weakest area of academy development unless Max Hunt comes back from Aldershot a man. But I do like your concept that we stop buying players to get us promoted and start investing in a long term future for the club. Couldn't agree more. I don't think Mason Bennett is even good enough for us now unfortunately. Regarding Max Hunt, I have touted him for ages to be the bees knees, I reckon he will shine in the next couple years, and we could hopefully have a future captain in the making. He's one of my favourite academy players (aswell as Sibley) and I've seen nothing but talent from him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Well what on earth does premier league quality actually mean ? sure we aren’t top eight quality but we certainly could mix it with the bottom 12 of the premiership as could half the championship with what we have right now more or less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 30 minutes ago, Van Cone De Head said: It’s taking a long time and what I’ve come up with won’t go down well. Chris Martin is good enough,Jack Marriott isn’t. I'll go one further. Neither of them are Premier League quality. That doesn't mean they can't be useful in the Championship though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Well what on earth does premier league quality actually mean ? Really good point. You can play many, many games in the Premier League and that doesn't necessarily mean you're good enough. Play enough games and you get the reputation as "Premier League quality" without necessarily having the talent to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Bennett...! He isn’t even close to being good enough for the 2nd division. Most of the squad are good enough for the Premiershite because the league isn’t that much better than the Championship, with their hr exception of 3 or 4 clubs the rest are beatable by anyone at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I guarantee that the majority of Leicester fans did not think Jamie Vardy was premier league quality when his discussion inevitably came up for them in 2013/2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethorn Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I think Bogle and Bierlik could be Huddlestone and Carson Have been. I would not bet on more than two of our acadamy starlets I would love it to be 4 but more likely to be one than 4 (If I had to guess now I would say Knight) Who may hold there own in the bottom half of the prem:- Roos, Lowe, Lawrence, Marriott, Martin (not for long though), Stop Gap Championship fodder :- Bennett, Malone, Shinnie, Evans, Holmes, The one I cannot figure out is Waghorn, on his day could do a job - but seems to have big waves of in form and out of form. So I reckon we have 7 who could be where you are talking about in 4 years Roos, Bogle, Beirlik, Lowe, Lawrence, Marriott and say Knight So 20 players over the next 4 years. I cannot see how you can have a change of policy from recruiting to go up to recruiting to stay up. I am not sure it is ever that clear cut. If it is and we get lots of players who would be good in the prem - several could be a waste of money if we never get there. I do believe I am talking myself into Cocu's culture being greater than individual players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Srg said: Bit of a pointless thread in all honesty. This ,when you look back at the three loanees last year and some of the comments regarding their ability and where they are now makes me wonder about some peoples judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, angieram said: I also agree with most of your list @Will Hughes Hair with one or two exceptions. I probably wouldn't have Bennett in there (much as I want it to be true) as I don't think he has a winner's mentality. Other than that I think you're pretty much spot on. For this reason alone, if we could afford only one quality player in January it has to be a centre back - by far the weakest area of the pitch in our current situation. Worryingly it's also the weakest area of academy development unless Max Hunt comes back from Aldershot a man. But I do like your concept that we stop buying players to get us promoted and start investing in a long term future for the club. Angie, I was honestly surprised that the first reply to my OP didn't call me out on Bennett's inclusion (irrespective of who was first to reply)! It was a knife edge choice for me too when I thought about the list but he's still relatively young and could develop further. The list also represents future squad players and for a supposed cart horse he never scores a bad goal, brings aggression to the team, and when partnered with Bogle down the right last season he looked a threat. There's probably also a degree of sentimentality if I'm totally honest, he seems an honest lad who's made some stupid choices in recent times and I'm hoping for him on a human level he can come back from it and be a better person and footballer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 36 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Well what on earth does premier league quality actually mean ? sure we aren’t top eight quality but we certainly could mix it with the bottom 12 of the premiership as could half the championship with what we have right now more or less I suppose it is all subjective but I think we should at least have the ambition to match the Wolves and Leicester's of the world and be targeting somewhere between 6th and 10th. Irrespective of that, I think the current squad would have an incredibly torrid time if it were parachuted as is in to the EPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: I'll go one further. Neither of them are Premier League quality. That doesn't mean they can't be useful in the Championship though. That’s a reasonable reply,I can go along with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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