4 points off the top 6

[mwram1973]

21 hours ago, Sparkle said:

I thought he was ok but he lost possession badly at times and if it was max bird or another of our youngsters I would be less concerned but at £10 million I want and expect a lot better but I also have to check that against the fact that he has only played at league one level prior to joining us 

What I noticed in the game though was he was always looking for a forward pass but it was noticable that the forward players weren't making runs and dropping into space for a pass, so he was having to do 360's to keep the ball and sometimes he did lose it.

[cheron85]

17 hours ago, SaintRam said:

Not sure I understand your point? In just real world inflation, that's more than £11.5m

In football inflation, that's a hell of a lot more. 

Sorry should have been more explicit - That was pretty much my exact point

Whilst £10m seems like a lot of money for a promising DM we received £7m for a promising DM 18 years ago - So £10m doesn't seem that much by comparison when you take into account the rapid inflation of football player values

We got £5.5m for Christian Dailly in 1998 as well

11 hours ago, Sparkle said:

Small point but they never actually gave us that much did they?

I think the final payment was where they sent us Johnson back instead - A 27 year old (at that point) Johnson who gave us a very good season must have been worth at least £1m

[SaintRam]

51 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Sorry should have been more explicit - That was pretty much my exact point

[AdamRam]

5 now and just 6 off the bottom 3. Our aspirations should always be top 2, nothing less, yet if this continues it will be staying in the league.

Our squad is so poor imo, I feel for PC as he is taking the brunt of the criticism, yet he has a decision to make, carry on with his philosophy with players that are not up to the job of delivering it or abandoning his principles and playing a brand of football in the short term that prioritises results over performance.
 

Trouble is, if there are no funds available in the Jan transfer window, he hasn’t got a hope, and if this is the case then it’s a very poor appointment given the squad he has been left with, may as well as given it to someone like a Warnock type manager.

[GrimsbyRam]

The squad is weaker than last season but he is certainly not getting the best out of the following:-

Bogle (compared to Lampard), Davies (compared to Rowett), Holmes (compared to Lampard), Waghorn (compared to Lampard), Marriott (compared to Lampard).  The most consistent player (Shinnie) is a Lampard signing that Cocu 'bombed' out for the first 10 games.

We do not have the players to pass around the back.  If you watch Bielek highlights at Charlton he sprays balls around quickly and with purposes as he has players moving forwards.  We do not transition like that.  Arguably with Holmes, Lawrence, Zoon, Marriott they are better players on the counter attack and breaking at pace.  Bogle and Lowe are full backs that like to run with the ball in space not pass side to side with the other team behind the ball.

If you could see us developing with good football but not getting the results you could be more sympathetic.  We are doing neither.

[superzak]

48 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

5 now and just 6 off the bottom 3. Our aspirations should always be top 2, nothing less, yet if this continues it will be staying in the league.

Our squad is so poor imo, I feel for PC as he is taking the brunt of the criticism, yet he has a decision to make, carry on with his philosophy with players that are not up to the job of delivering it or abandoning his principles and playing a brand of football in the short term that prioritises results over performance.
 

Trouble is, if there are no funds available in the Jan transfer window, he hasn’t got a hope, and if this is the case then it’s a very poor appointment given the squad he has been left with, may as well as given it to someone like a Warnock type manager.

The priority should always be too win games at any cost. If that means playing a different style until he can get players through the door who can play in the way he wants ...so be it

[RandomAccessMemory]

22 minutes ago, GrimsbyRam said:

The squad is weaker than last season but he is certainly not getting the best out of the following:-

Bogle (compared to Lampard), Davies (compared to Rowett), Holmes (compared to Lampard), Waghorn (compared to Lampard), Marriott (compared to Lampard).  The most consistent player (Shinnie) is a Lampard signing that Cocu 'bombed' out for the first 10 games.

We do not have the players to pass around the back.  If you watch Bielek highlights at Charlton he sprays balls around quickly and with purposes as he has players moving forwards.  We do not transition like that.  Arguably with Holmes, Lawrence, Zoon, Marriott they are better players on the counter attack and breaking at pace.  Bogle and Lowe are full backs that like to run with the ball in space not pass side to side with the other team behind the ball.

If you could see us developing with good football but not getting the results you could be more sympathetic.  We are doing neither.

I'm not sure that's particularly fair at this point with regards to Bogle, Holmes and Marriott. They've all been injured for quite a bit of the season so far and haven't really had time to get up to match pace yet, if they still look off it after a few more games then maybe it would become fairer.

With Shinnie, I'm not sure he 'bombed' him out, yes he acknowledged that he wasn't his signing, but didn't he basically say he needed more time to get used to what he wanted him to do? He had a few U23 games to see if he was improving on what he wanted him to, he was, Huddlestone got injured so he got his chance, and he's not looked back. We're now impressed and we think we've got a good player, to me that's good management, if he'd have kept putting him in before he felt like he was ready and not performed as well as he now is then people would have already written him off as a(nother) bad signing before we'd really got to see what he was capable of.

With Davies it's not particularly surprising to me that he performed better under Rowett, his strength is not playing the ball out from the back (that's not his fault as the majority of his career was played before this became as important as it now has) and had Keogh not been injured I'm almost certain he wouldn't be playing, or if he was he'd be playing on the left alongside Keogh, who is much better at it. Rowettball wasn't really about doing this, hence he looked better.

I think you're right about not having the players to pass around at the back and whilst I do think Clarke is a little better on the ball, I don't think he and Davies make a good pairing as for me they are too similar in other ways, neither has any pace and I don't think that is doing us any favours. I'd be tempted to try Wisdom on the right and one of them on the left, but Wisdom is still finding his way back from a long injury so it may be a little too soon to expect him to be able to play a full game at Championship speed.

The problem if we transition away from passing out from the back to suit the players we have there is that then we don't learn to get better at it, and if that's ultimately the way we want to go when we can bring in players who can do it in January, then we end up having to transition everyone else back to that style again.

Frustrating as it may be at times, I think persevering with it is the right thing to do for the time being, especially as the vast majority of people who watched it have said the first 45 minutes yesterday was amongst the best we have played so far this season, bar being able to put the ball in the net at the other end, which isn't really a fault of playing out from the back.

[LittleEatonRam]

Wigan currently beating Bristol City 2-1 despite being 1-0 down. Somebody should tell Lee Johnson that Wigan are rubbish and they should be thrashing them at home. Boooo.

Almost as if the Championship is a tough league and you can't expect to just play everyone off the park.

[Jayram]

2 hours ago, LittleEatonRam said:

Wigan currently beating Bristol City 2-1 despite being 1-0 down. Somebody should tell Lee Johnson that Wigan are rubbish and they should be thrashing them at home. Boooo.

Almost as if the Championship is a tough league and you can't expect to just play everyone off the park.

To be fair, we haven’t played anyone off the park since Mr Cocu arrived have we? Some mildly exciting football would be nice - at the moment it’s like watching paint dry.

 

[BondJovi]

4 hours ago, GrimsbyRam said:

The squad is weaker than last season but he is certainly not getting the best out of the following:-

Bogle (compared to Lampard), Davies (compared to Rowett), Holmes (compared to Lampard), Waghorn (compared to Lampard), Marriott (compared to Lampard).  The most consistent player (Shinnie) is a Lampard signing that Cocu 'bombed' out for the first 10 games.

We do not have the players to pass around the back.  If you watch Bielek highlights at Charlton he sprays balls around quickly and with purposes as he has players moving forwards.  We do not transition like that.  Arguably with Holmes, Lawrence, Zoon, Marriott they are better players on the counter attack and breaking at pace.  Bogle and Lowe are full backs that like to run with the ball in space not pass side to side with the other team behind the ball.

If you could see us developing with good football but not getting the results you could be more sympathetic.  We are doing neither.

Unfair on those players who have been injured. Did Lampard really get the best out of Marriott? Preferred Nugent to him for a large part of the season.

As for Davies. At his age coming back from a season out and to play every game is a big ask. Waghorn has been poor so far that is true.

I have said in another thread, our defensive unit without Keogh is shockingly weak and that includes all options in the squad. That affects the whole way the team plays. 

I like Holmes but his end product has always been poor. Same for Lawrence.

You only had to see how poor we were without Mount last season. And that still had Wilson and Tomori in the team. Take Keogh out last season and we would have struggled. No Johnson towards the end of the season and we don't make the play offs.

That is 5 key players who got us into the play offs. None of them have been replaced with similar quality. Not even possible in Keogh's case. Our team is significantly worse this season.

We have a long road ahead. In this league though, you only need a few good runs to have a decent finish. Be patient and see what January brings. Personally I would have hoped to see a bit more cohesion and clarity of ideas by now but anybody writing off the season already has not watched this league enough!

[dcfc4ever]

5 hours ago, AdamRam said:

5 now and just 6 off the bottom 3. Our aspirations should always be top 2, nothing less, yet if this continues it will be staying in the league.

Our squad is so poor imo, I feel for PC as he is taking the brunt of the criticism, yet he has a decision to make, carry on with his philosophy with players that are not up to the job of delivering it or abandoning his principles and playing a brand of football in the short term that prioritises results over performance.
 

Trouble is, if there are no funds available in the Jan transfer window, he hasn’t got a hope, and if this is the case then it’s a very poor appointment given the squad he has been left with, may as well as given it to someone like a Warnock type manager.

Keep the faith we have Rooney to look out for.I hope the Rooney effect will inspire our current players and fans and be the catalyst to turn the performances around.As long as were at least mid table when he starts playing for us we will still be in with a chance of at least top 6.As soon as he starts training and coaching with the players I expect to see a turnaround in our quality and standard of play as all will be inspired to raise there game

[GrimsbyRam]

1 hour ago, BondJovi said:

Unfair on those players who have been injured. Did Lampard really get the best out of Marriott? Preferred Nugent to him for a large part of the season.

As for Davies. At his age coming back from a season out and to play every game is a big ask. Waghorn has been poor so far that is true.

I have said in another thread, our defensive unit without Keogh is shockingly weak and that includes all options in the squad. That affects the whole way the team plays. 

I like Holmes but his end product has always been poor. Same for Lawrence.

You only had to see how poor we were without Mount last season. And that still had Wilson and Tomori in the team. Take Keogh out last season and we would have struggled. No Johnson towards the end of the season and we don't make the play offs.

That is 5 key players who got us into the play offs. None of them have been replaced with similar quality. Not even possible in Keogh's case. Our team is significantly worse this season.

We have a long road ahead. In this league though, you only need a few good runs to have a decent finish. Be patient and see what January brings. Personally I would have hoped to see a bit more cohesion and clarity of ideas by now but anybody writing off the season already has not watched this league enough!

They were unfit last season too! When Marriott played we generally won.  I put a stat up last season about this.

Davies only needs to do what Davies is good at.  Defend, body on the line and clear.  Not pass and take responsibility.

Unfair on Holmes.  I dont agree has has no end of product. It was only a couple of games ago he created a goal.  Holmes will thrive playing attacking football.

Genuine question and I am not being controversial but why do we have to wait to the transfer window and is January 2020 going to make it better? Monk hasn't had a transfer window at Sheff Wednesday and look at them. The Swansea manager (appointed the same time as Cocu) has improved them and they have lost Jordan Ayew, McBurnie and Daniel James (latter two their best players) and has spent around 1/2 million.  Warbuton at lowly QPR. These are just the 'new managers'.  Cocu sanctioned Paterson, Clarke, Bielek, Hamer and Dowell (not set this league of fire for the last 2 years). Bar Bielek (who I actually rate but it was a lot of money for a player proven at league one) none of them have pulled up any trees.  Bristol City would not have loaned us (rivals from last season) Paterson if he was any good. 

Are then genuinely any better than the likes of Russell, Pearce, Carson, Bryson? 

[RamNut]

11 hours ago, GrimsbyRam said:

 Cocu sanctioned Paterson, Clarke, Bielek, Hamer and Dowell (not set this league of fire for the last 2 years). Bar Bielek (who I actually rate but it was a lot of money for a player proven at league one) none of them have pulled up any trees.  Bristol City would not have loaned us (rivals from last season) Paterson if he was any good. 

Are then genuinely any better than the likes of Russell, Pearce, Carson, Bryson? 

Sanctioned is an interesting word. It implies- probably correctly- that he agreed to something that was initiated by others.

Mel has spoken previously about permanent signings having been a mistake when Hughes and Bryson got injured. In this instance I assume that they didn’t want to block the way for knight and Sibley and therefore preferred to go for loans. In reality knight and Sibley aren’t getting that much of a look in. Since Lawrence and Holmes can play central, the target should have been new wingers Mitchell-Lawson doesn’t seem to be in the frame and we haven’t got a left winger since Luke Thomas was sold. 

 

[Nuwtfly]

Hate to say it, as I am a massive fan of his, but I fear Phillip Cocu has two games to save his job. Boro at home, followed by Forest; a game which has been a death knell for manager's of both clubs. The international break follows,and with it, an opportunity for change.

Personally, I hope we stick with him. He needs the sort of time manager's like Farke got, and the opportunity to rebuild through several windows. But the closer we linger to relegation zone, the harder it will be for the club. Fan pressure has already built up in some areas, too.

Nothing is solved by constantly changing your manager. It's just another roll of the dice. A slam of the reset button. And yet, more and more, you see clubs do it when times are tough. DCFC are no different, especially when you consider what relegation would 'cost' us.

It also seems more likely when manager's like Chris Hughton are still available. He took over at BHAFC under similar circumstances to the ones we face now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see DCFC move for him, should they look to make a change.

But, as I've already said, I personally think this would be the wrong thing to do. Manager's need time. Will the club continue to see it that way if we slip closer towards the relegation zone, and suffer another humiliating defeat to our local rivals? I hope so.

Anyway, he's got my support. COYR!

[SaintRam]

3 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

Hate to say it, as I am a massive fan of his, but I fear Phillip Cocu has two games to save his job. Boro at home, followed by Forest; a game which has been a death knell for manager's of both clubs. The international break follows,and with it, an opportunity for change.

Personally, I hope we stick with him. He needs the sort of time manager's like Farke got, and the opportunity to rebuild through several windows. But the closer we linger to relegation zone, the harder it will be for the club. Fan pressure has already built up in some areas, too.

Nothing is solved by constantly changing your manager. It's just another roll of the dice. A slam of the reset button. And yet, more and more, you see clubs do it when times are tough. DCFC are no different, especially when you consider what relegation would 'cost' us.

It also seems more likely when manager's like Chris Hughton are still available. He took over at BHAFC under similar circumstances to the ones we face now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see DCFC move for him, should they look to make a change.

But, as I've already said, I personally think this would be the wrong thing to do. Manager's need time. Will the club continue to see it that way if we slip closer towards the relegation zone, and suffer another humiliating defeat to our local rivals? I hope so.

Anyway, he's got my support. COYR!

With the absolute non-Cocu related poo storms we've had this season, I really doubt EVEN losing to forest will see him ousted.

Sure; the fans will get even more unbearable, as they always do. Maybe they'll even make a sign. I just don't see Mel sacking him, or him resigning. Neither will feel he's had a chance so far.