Playing out from the Back

[plymouthram]

12 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Problem is do we have anybody who can win a header to do any different?

I have to say I don’t particularly like it but I think, and this isn’t just us, teams need to be a bit more inventive about it rather than pass it sideways approach. Possibly something like on your first goal kick, pass it forward quickly to a midfielder, so then when other teams have a high line then you start to make them second guess (OR do this so it makes them push more players forward then BAM! ROUTE ONE OVER THE TOP. Genius!).

Thank you Neal Warnock

[plymouthram]

8 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

Absolutely, pick your moments and pick your opponents.

A high pressing, table topping Leeds team gagging for revenge at Elland Road? Probably alright to play it long once in a while.

I like having that philosophy/style of play,  just be practical about it. 

I would call it mixing your game up a bit, the other team then would not know whether to push up high or man mark. Keep them guessing, get them disjointed out of shape for space to run in or to pass into.

[Comrade 86]

9 hours ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

I am not a fan of Cardiff style football , but yesterday and all season apart from Huddersfield the football has been slow , turgid and completely ineffective. Keogh and Clarke are not good enough on the ball to play this way IMO, Keogh passed the ball back to Roos every ducking time , who then just hoofed it randomly back to them, you may as well just hoof straight from your centre back or play a slide ball down the channels for Marriott to chase than doing that.  Its not completely the defenders fault as the midfield movement was poor, but I just think the Clarke and Keogh are slow in their decision making and can't see a pass well,  if we had someone with a lot of quality on the ball we could use our centre backs to build up, but as it is I would rather we get the ball quickly into the midfield and then build up from there or direct to Martin or Marriott.

Keogh can't play out from the back?

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Stick with it but midfield Must be improved. 

[Rampage]

Not good enough as a team to play out from back with present players. Stood more chance when we had loanees last year.

[hintonsboots]

4 minutes ago, The Orange Pimpernel said:

Stick with it but midfield Must be improved. 

Roos puts the sh1ts up me when he plays out from his area. He seems to be happy just to up his pass completion stats, while not caring whether it’s a hospital pass or not. I agree with other posters on this thread, sometimes the  ball needs to be chipped out to the wings, or punted straight up to Chris Martin to control and earn a foul in an attacking position.?

[G-Ram]

Playing out from the back works when you, have the players and pass & move with purpose

Norwich v City last week. Norwich were class playing out from the back. Its a struggle against a team with high press. Would have been good to mix it up against Leeds

All you could hear from the commentary was 'leeds pressing high setting traps' we should have set our own. Roll it out, let them press high then go long & bypass them ?‍♂️

We need to mix it up or we'll get found out 

[europia]

15 hours ago, Van Cone De Head said:

It worries me.

Sounds awful but I’m not sure we’re good enough to do it?

 

When the opposition sense that we are not comfortable playing out from the back, they are going to put pressure on our nervy back four. Every championship manager will know how to play against us. 

[Millenniumram]

The modern style of football is to play out from the back, and I think if we’re going to succeed long term, then it’s something we have to be looking at doing, and doing properly and well. I certainly think it’s one of cocus main philosophical aims (only thing to my mind that’s clear so far worryingly!), and I think he’s absolutely right to focus on it. Not just because it’s pretty, I don’t care so much for that, but more because long term it’s going to bring more success than archaic football that may give a short term lift- but can only possibly work until a limited point. So we definitely shouldn’t be ditching it that’s for sure, not for more than the short term anyway. We really need to stick with it when possible, and most importantly work on it until it does work.

Think the bigger thing to consider is why exactly were so poor at it atm. Now there’s the obvious argument that Leeds are just superb at pressing, which they are of course, and if it was just the one game you’d probably write it off to experience with that excuse. But the trouble is, it’s not just one game. In almost every match this season we’ve thrown away chances to the opposition by simply gifting possession away far too often far too cheaply, and in many cases they’ve led to goals. It’s been one of our biggest downfalls this season, and there’s no denying that our inability to play out from the back has certainly cost us on more than a few occasions and it can’t continue. Well honestly get relegated if we carry on handing out presents like it’s Christmas Day like we are at the moment, its utterly dreadful, shambolic and embarrassing to watch at times. 

So it’s more than just the quality of the opposition, it’s a failing of our team itself, and a catalogue of individual, unforced errors. The strange thing about it all of course, is that the current backline- including GK, are all players That have generally been considered to be “footballing” players. There’s no real old fashioned cloggers in there. So you wouldn’t expect the notion of playing out from the back to be foreign to them, or them to struggle to the extent they are at present (can’t think there’s many teams in the league if any who’ve gifted as many chances through individual defensive errors in possession this season). So why exactly are we struggled so much? I think we can pinpoint it to a number of reasons that need rectifying:

1. Poor coaching on the training pitch. From what I’ve seen so far, the entire defence doesn’t seem to actually know what they’re doing playing out from the back (or in terms of defensive organisation for that matter, but that’s for another thread), it certainly doesn’t look very well rehearsed. Players hold onto the ball far too long as they’re unsure where they should be playing it, and perhaps more importantly, players aren’t finding the right spaces to present themselves as options to beat the press. If we’re not doing enough of it already, it really should be a training priority to rehearse how to beat a press and get out from the back. Once you do that, you can get into overload positions quite easily as the best teams show week in week out. The key to it all imo, is being able to switch play effectively, which is what Tomori was so brilliant at and arguably one of the biggest things were missing in his absence. Most teams in this league tend to press quite lopsidedly, running at the player in possession rather than as a team at the backline as a whole. Only the best teams (like leeds) will be drilled enough to do the latter effectively. This leaves a lot of space the opposite side to the player in possession. The easiest way to therefore beat such a press, is to play it to a player who’s moved into enough space to get a long switch ball out to the opposite side, where the fullback should have moved into a decent advanced position to receive the ball and start an attack from there, with much of the opposition stranded further upfield. That’s the sort of thing we need to be working on relentlessly until we can do it in our sleep. The trouble is, it requires someone with a good spray pass like Tomori, which brings me on to my next point...

2. Matt Clarke. I’ll start by saying I’ve bagged him a lot and I don’t want to seem like I’m scapegoating him, so I’ll add in that I think he’s young and has potential as a player, his defensive abilities look good and I think a lot of his form is down to nerves. But at the moment he’s bloody awful and a massive contributor to our problems, simple as imo. He’s been beyond shocking in pretty much all his performances other than his debut, and he’s almost making Alex Pearce look like Ronald koeman at the moment, yet alone Tomori! If the recruitment team signed him to be a ball playing centre half, then that’s another duck up by them to add to a very long list on current evidence. He constantly runs into trouble- never seems to know what his next move is, just sort of runs without thinking, a bit like a certain Mr Sammon. Just charges into the opposition trap without any idea of where he’s going to pass it, then does one of three things. He either holds onto it too long, tries to turn and loses the ball. Or he just hoofs it long and loses the ball. Or he gives it to another player who’s not really in a position to receive, putting them in trouble and forcing their error. Honestly the more you watch, the more you realise how much of our distribution problems are caused by clarke. Every players been guilty of a few duck ups, but 9 times out of 10 when you track the move back, it’s clarke who’s originally given them the ball in a dangerous position. For now, until he resolves the confidence issue/ practices on the training pitch, he can’t be near the starting 11. Who replaces him is tough, but I’d be tempted to give Buchanan the baptism of fire and give him a go, he looks excellent on the ball and I rate his potential based on  what I’ve seen. The worry is that’s he’s still young and may not be ready. The other option is drop Bielik  in but I’m not convinced he’s comfortable there. Ideally we’d have signed a more suitable player, but that’s too much to expect from our incompetent muppets in the recruitment team, so I reckon Buchanan is our best hope.

3. Dodgy goalie. Now I think Roos is decent on the short pass, but he doesn’t half make some weird decisions sometimes, and his long ball is pretty rank poor. Always a risk of him making a duck up on the ball as well, or him giving the ball to someone under huge pressure. With someone so erratic and unconvincing behind them, it’ll effect the defences confidence and no doubt have a knock on effect to our playing our from the back. Think you have to call givens coaching into question here as this really should be improved in training in terms of Roos decision making. But regardless I remain unconvinced by Roos ability all round at this level and I don’t have enough confidence in him as our number 1. For now I’d given hamer a go, but we really need a new top class goalie imo, the impact that one has on defence confidence is understated imo. Obviously this is a bigger issue than just this point.

4. Lack of movement. Again stretches beyond this point and is a big problem really altogether in contributing to our poor form, impacting both ends of the pitch. But it does effect playing out from the back massively when no one makes themselves an option and all just stand static hoping for some magic. This is particulary evident in our “midfield” or sorry excuse for one at least. Players need to be moving and finding that space quickly so we can move the ball out the back as fast as possible, reducing the time the opposition have to close us down. That quick movement is the only way we’ll get the one touch football we need to succeed, instead of this slow moving static poo. Again though, I fear this may not improve until we’ve got some better midfielders in than our current poo crop that’s once again been left in a sorry state through poor recruiting organisation.

So there’s 4 things to be working on to sort our playing out the back and get it up to standard imo. First two can be started immediately to try and patch things up at least to see us through till January, latter two need personnel changes really. Lot of work to do, and a busy January needed.