Bob The Badger Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 And I know more than every Derby manager stretching back 8-years or so. I also know more than Professional footballers who have played alongside Richard Keogh and have voted him their players player of the season. I also know more than the fans who came within a kippers dick of making him their player of the year for a record-breaking third term and those who gave him an award twice that the mighty Stimac, MacFarland, Wright and Todd failed to eclipse. if you can kick off a post slagging Richard Keogh with those words, then people might take you sensibly. Although, I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I know more than Sky TV pundits n all. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I know more than Phil Brown about fake tan products... Am i doing this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsFan10 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Agree with you regarding Keogh, he has been an amazing player for us and the fact he still gets criticised is ridiculous. Yet although the post is tongue-and-cheek, the idea that fans' criticisms of footballers/managers are invalid because they do not know as much about football as them has always annoyed me. Its a ridiculous assertion. Even the best footballers and managers get things wrong, and sometimes people with outside perspectives can notice that before the mistake plays out. The best example i can think of is Pep's team selection for Man City's first leg tie away at Tottenham in the champions league, which left pundits and fans baffled - and proved to be an error. The same logic is hardly ever applied to other things. Politicians clearly know more about what they do than the average person, but criticism of them is (rightly) valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 To be argumentative, the forum wouldn't exist without people giving different opinions, whilst I often disagree with thoughts on here, it'd be boring and I wouldn't visit if everyone thought exactly the same as each other. It also doesn't mean you claim to know more than someone to hold a different opinion to them. Even as a Keogh fan, it's a silly and weak argument to claim just because said manager rates a player, means that you have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Hate the argument that you can’t come on here and give your opinion because we’re not managers/ ex players. Forum may as well not exist if that’s the case. Stupid thing to say. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion. My opinion is of course that the opinion Keogh is rubbish is utter ******** and he’s one of our better defenders in recent years. But that’s my opinion and I ain’t gonna say someone else isn’t entitled to one, even if I disagree with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Just now, Millenniumram said: But that’s my opinion and I ain’t gonna say someone else isn’t entitled to one, even if I disagree with it. That's what it boils down to ultimately. The forum would be crap if it was an echo chamber. The more controversial posters often create the most interesting discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Andicis said: To be argumentative, the forum wouldn't exist without people giving different opinions, whilst I often disagree with thoughts on here, it'd be boring and I wouldn't visit if everyone thought exactly the same as each other. It also doesn't mean you claim to know more than someone to hold a different opinion to them. Even as a Keogh fan, it's a silly and weak argument to claim just because said manager rates a player, means that you have to. 4 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Hate the argument that you can’t come on here and give your opinion because we’re not managers/ ex players. Forum may as well not exist if that’s the case. Stupid thing to say. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion. My opinion is of course that the opinion Keogh is rubbish is utter ******** and he’s one of our better defenders in recent years. But that’s my opinion and I ain’t gonna say someone else isn’t entitled to one, even if I disagree with it. People seem to get more annoyed at things they don't agree with nowadays. Not just on this forum, but in life in general. I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps access to the internet, everyone's opinions, and the constant ability to spout your own, has made everyone more precious or argumentative or confrontational. Who knows. A Keogh thread probably isn't the place for this conversation ? For what it's worth: Richard Keogh has arguably gotten better every single season he's played for us. Immense in that final and largely immense across the course of the whole season. The ultimate servant. Will be remembered and regarded very highly when he one day parts ways ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, Paul71 said: I know more than Phil Brown about fake tan products... Am i doing this right? I don't believe you. Phil brown could go for a stroll round Belfast and bring the peace process down he's that orange.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 20 minutes ago, Andicis said: To be argumentative, the forum wouldn't exist without people giving different opinions, whilst I often disagree with thoughts on here, it'd be boring and I wouldn't visit if everyone thought exactly the same as each other. It also doesn't mean you claim to know more than someone to hold a different opinion to them. Even as a Keogh fan, it's a silly and weak argument to claim just because said manager rates a player, means that you have to. True, but when you have a body of consistent evidence from experts it's a bit arrogant to dismiss it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, Andicis said: That's what it boils down to ultimately. The forum would be crap if it was an echo chamber. The more controversial posters often create the most interesting discussions. Exactly, what would we all talk about other than agreeing with every decision the manager makes- imagine if Mel had done that with Pearson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: People seem to get more annoyed at things they don't agree with nowadays. Not just on this forum, but in life in general. I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps access to the internet, everyone's opinions, and the constant ability to spout your own, has made everyone more precious or argumentative or confrontational. Who knows. A Keogh thread probably isn't the place for this conversation ? For what it's worth: Richard Keogh has arguably gotten better every single season he's played for us. Immense in that final and largely immense across the course of the whole season. The ultimate servant. Will be remembered and regarded very highly when he one day parts ways ? Just seems bizzare to me, debate opinions don’t just say their invalid cause it’s a bloke on a forum imo is the way to go. Exactly right on Keogh, could even get a testimonial at this rate. A player certainly to be remembered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 @RamsFan10 @Andicis @Millenniumram - Before I wrote this post as I was idly pondering it this morning walking the hounds I thought of this point and meant to address it. Then being old and stuff, promptly forgot. Of course, we all have different opinions on players and that's largely the point of message boards. However, with RK there seem to be a few vocal people who think that everybody else just doesn't 'get it'. The fact that there has been zero doubt amongst his managers and peers would surely have any reasonably minded person questioning their opinion, not doubling down. We can all point to players who bounce in and out of sides depending on different managers, styles of play, month of the year, etc., but not Keogh, the guy is there week in week out for every manager and admired by his peers. The only player I can ever remember like him, in terms of creating such polarised opinions amongst fans and who still always got picked, was John McGovern and with him, it was mainly Cloughie who would always sign him and then play him, not a long string of managers. For example, I get the Chris Martin debate. The guy was in and out and there seemed to be no consensus amongst his managers, never mind fans. That isn't the case with RK. So sure, of course, you can have the opinion that he's a poor footballer and similarly, you can have the opinion that global warming is a hoax. The reality is, some opinions have more validity and stand up better to debate than others. Sensible debate does not mean that all opinions have equal validity because if it did, science would grind to a halt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 “Kipper’s dick” is now my preferred unit of measurement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 56 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: True, but when you have a body of consistent evidence from experts it's a bit arrogant to dismiss it all. I don't think so. I think people are free to draw whatever conclusions they want about players, doesn't mean I won't call them out on it if I don't agree with them, but I don't see it as arrogance to think a different way to experts, it's a game of opinions after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, cosmic said: “Kipper’s dick” is now my preferred unit of measurement. What's the standard conversion factor to "baw hair" and to "gnat's chuff"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I think the point the OP was making wasn't simply that people were holding on to an opinion that just one person disagrees with, but one that every professional individual who's come into contact with Keogh has disagreed with. A sentiment I can sympathise with. However, that point is pretty obvious and I don't think deserves it's own thread. And an infinite number of "professional" opponents to an opinion does not remove people's right to hold it. It's simply a matter that the higher the number, the sillier they look. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, cosmic said: “Kipper’s dick” is now my preferred unit of measurement. Is a Dippers Kick a penalty awarded to Liverpool ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said: What's the standard conversion factor to "baw hair" and to "gnat's chuff"? I think you multiply it by half a spider’s fart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 It's the certainty of the conviction that gets to me. "Despite lots of statistics and opinion to the contrary, I think Keogh is rubbish." said no-one ever. "Keogh is rubbish" is what they say. Which I read as "Look at me with my controversial opinion!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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