I know more than Frank Lampard

[Bob The Badger]

31 minutes ago, cosmic said:

I think you multiply it by half a spider’s fart.

Seriously?

You half wit, you double it. Double it, man!

[Sheikh n Bake]

3 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

And I know more than every Derby manager stretching back 8-years or so.

I also know more than Professional footballers who have played alongside Richard Keogh and have voted him their players player of the season.

I also know more than the fans who came within a kippers dick of making him their player of the year for a record-breaking third term and those who gave him an award twice that the mighty Stimac, MacFarland, Wright and Todd failed to eclipse.

if you can kick off a post slagging Richard Keogh with those words, then people might take you sensibly.

Although, I doubt it.

So why has he cost us promotion twice in the last 5 years?

 

[Bob The Badger]

7 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said:

So why has he cost us promotion twice in the last 5 years?

 

Sorry for the foreign language, but you clearly don't speak 'football' anyway, so who cares?

If he lost us the playoff finals, guess who won us the game against Leeds.

50 seconds and 1 minute 54 seconds.

Lest we forget.

 

[Sheikh n Bake]

[Sheikh n Bake]

[Bob The Badger]

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Nick_Ram said:

Some jokes get lost in translation.

Some just reside in the mind of the owner.

 

[Sheikh n Bake]

[minesahartington]

Everyone is entitled to their wrong opinion. It’s only fair job to point it out.

[Philmycock]

I have an opinion on women's breasts but I'm not a bra designer. 

[LittleEatonRam]

3 hours ago, RamsFan10 said:

Agree with you regarding Keogh, he has been an amazing player for us and the fact he still gets criticised is ridiculous. 

Yet although the post is tongue-and-cheek, the idea that fans' criticisms of footballers/managers are invalid because they do not know as much about football as them has always annoyed me. Its a ridiculous assertion. Even the best footballers and managers get things wrong, and sometimes people with outside perspectives can notice that before the mistake plays out. The best example i can think of is Pep's team selection for Man City's first leg tie away at Tottenham in the champions league, which left pundits and fans baffled - and proved to be an error. 

The same logic is hardly ever applied to other things. Politicians clearly know more about what they do than the average person, but criticism of them is (rightly) valid. 

In a nutshell, this is it. In logic terms I believe it's called 'proving too much': somebody says "What do you know about football, you've never played it!"
The exact same argument can be made for:

A crap meal at a restaurant ("You can't complain, you've never been a professional chef!")

Politics ("What do you know, you've never held a political position!")

Art ("You're not an artist so you don't know anything!")

 

If this argument were valid none of us would be allowed opinions on anything.  I'm not saying you shouldn't question other peoples opinions, just don't drag out this utter nonsense of an argument against them.

[ossieram]

11 minutes ago, philmycock said:

I have an opinion on women's breasts but I'm not a bra designer. 

But you are a tit ?

[Will Hughes Hair]

9 minutes ago, ossieram said:

But you are a tit ?

He's made a boob with that analogy ?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

3 hours ago, Nuwtfly said:

People seem to get more annoyed at things they don't agree with nowadays. Not just on this forum, but in life in general.

I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps access to the internet, everyone's opinions, and the constant ability to spout your own, has made everyone more precious or argumentative or confrontational. Who knows. A Keogh thread probably isn't the place for this conversation ?

For what it's worth: Richard Keogh has arguably gotten better every single season he's played for us. Immense in that final and largely immense across the course of the whole season. The ultimate servant. Will be remembered and regarded very highly when he one day parts ways ?

Do you not think that people have stayed the same but it's the medium that's changed? Previously, perhaps the only real discussion you'd have would be in person where you'd simply have to agree to disagree because otherwise you wouldn't be able to move on in the conversation. Whereas now it's a case of debating a single topic with someone via the keyboard and you never speak to them again after that conversation. I'm not sure. My generation is more tolerant in some areas and less tolerant in others.

On Keogh, I agree that he's got better and more consistent ever year. I love the bloke.

[RoyMac5]

53 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Do you not think that people have stayed the same but it's the medium that's changed? Previously, perhaps the only real discussion you'd have would be in person where you'd simply have to agree to disagree because otherwise you wouldn't be able to move on in the conversation. Whereas now it's a case of debating a single topic with someone via the keyboard and you never speak to them again after that conversation. I'm not sure. My generation is more tolerant in some areas and less tolerant in others.

On Keogh, I agree that he's got better and more consistent ever year. I love the bloke.

What has changed is the belief that 'my view' is as valid as yours, I don't care that you're an expert. ?

[Millenniumram]

4 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

@RamsFan10 @Andicis @Millenniumram - Before I wrote this post as I was idly pondering it this morning walking the hounds I thought of this point and meant to address it. Then being old and stuff, promptly forgot.

Of course, we all have different opinions on players and that's largely the point of message boards.

However, with RK there seem to be a few vocal people who think that everybody else just doesn't 'get it'.

The fact that there has been zero doubt amongst his managers and peers would surely have any reasonably minded person questioning their opinion, not doubling down.

We can all point to players who bounce in and out of sides depending on different managers, styles of play, month of the year, etc., but not Keogh, the guy is there week in week out for every manager and admired by his peers. 

The only player I can ever remember like him, in terms of creating such polarised opinions amongst fans and who still always got picked, was John McGovern and with him, it was mainly Cloughie who would always sign him and then play him, not a long string of managers.

For example, I get the Chris Martin debate. The guy was in and out and there seemed to be no consensus amongst his managers, never mind fans. That isn't the case with RK.

So sure, of course, you can have the opinion that he's a poor footballer and similarly, you can have the opinion that global warming is a hoax. The reality is, some opinions have more validity and stand up better to debate than others. Sensible debate does not mean that all opinions have equal validity because if it did, science would grind to a halt.

 

 

Yeah fair enough mate, wasn’t really aimed at you as I realised that wasn’t the point of your post, just when things like that are said it grates me. But yes, the criticism of Keogh is ridiculous and still imo stems from a mistake years ago. Ludicrous given how loyal a servants he’s been and what he’s given to the club.

[S8TY]

yeah thats it....... lets just have ex premier league players opinions only ( as ex championship players or lower league players opinions will be superceded and deemed nonsense) and managers and anyone with a EUFA badge only as everyone elses opinion is just utter rubbish..in fact lets close the pubs and ban all football talk and opinion and just go shopping on saturday with the missus

( yikes!!!!!).....................jeeeeeeez!!!!

[bigbadbob]

2 hours ago, philmycock said:

I have an opinion on women's breasts but I'm not a bra designer. 

I'd imagine you're a bit of a "happy clapper" on that subject.

[Nuwtfly]

"Chelsea have targeted Derby boss Frank Lampard as Sarri’s potential replacement, and the £4million that the Pride Park club will want as compensation for the remaining two years of the former Stamford Bridge hero’s contract is not expected to be an obstacle."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1135355/Juventus-Chelsea-Maurizio-Sarri-Tottenham-Kieran-Trippier-Mauricio-Pochettino-Allegri

[Bob The Badger]

3 hours ago, LittleEatonRam said:

In a nutshell, this is it. In logic terms I believe it's called 'proving too much': somebody says "What do you know about football, you've never played it!"
The exact same argument can be made for:

A crap meal at a restaurant ("You can't complain, you've never been a professional chef!")

Politics ("What do you know, you've never held a political position!")

Art ("You're not an artist so you don't know anything!")

 

If this argument were valid none of us would be allowed opinions on anything.  I'm not saying you shouldn't question other peoples opinions, just don't drag out this utter nonsense of an argument against them.

I *think* you're talking about confirmation bias, but not entirely sure.

In any case, there are subjective opinions and objective ones.

Keogh falls between the two.

If I take a scallop and smother it in salt and you like salt, then you can subjectively tell me you think that was a finely cooked scallop, even though objectively it was mangled to death.

I will avoid the politics one for fear of using Trump as an example and upsetting my right-wing brethren, but if I take a blank canvas and piss on it and then get my dog to take a dump, it really doesn't matter what *you* think, it's still not fine art.

The two goals at Leeds were objectively fine work by Keogh bringing the ball out of defense a la Mark Wright. Similarly, RK has made a LOT of goal-saving tackles this season.

OTOH, he has been subjectively caught out of position on occasions.

There are of course, as I alluded to, combinations of the two. if there weren't there would be no debate whatsoever.

It's fine to criticize Keogh and he does make mistakes, but it's not fine to criticize the guy because he looks like an extra from the Peaky Blinders and doesn't look cool.

Would he cut the mustard at the top of the Premier League? Probably not, but he's been an outstanding servant to DCFC in my subjective opinion. And I can back that up with objective facts.

[LittleEatonRam]

I'm not talking about confirmation bias, or taking issue with the substance of your argument (I don't dislike Keogh), I'm saying that the particular form of argument you're using is a fallacy.

And in your art example I didn't say fine art, I said art. E.g. Tracey Emin can argue that her messy bed is art, but it would be poor reasoning of her to say that I'm wrong in thinking it's complete poo because I'm not an artist.