No George Thorne

[Archied]

25 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I'm not yet convinced that he is finished.

i suspect we want him out either because he's on mega money or because of the extras payable to west brom, but there is no reason why he can't recover from the injuries he has had. His acl was yonks ago, and a broken leg is not going to finish a player ( ref dave mackay)

he looked in good shape, and was playing ok in the u23s. Nothing spectacular admittedly.

if huddz goes, we only have evans and thorne to pick from for the holding player. And that should be ok.

He has far too much to prove for us to go into a season with him as a prominent first team player or back up

[RamNut]

11 hours ago, Archied said:

He has far too much to prove for us to go into a season with him as a prominent first team player or back up

Well unless we pay him off, sell him, or he agrees to go on loan......Thats exactly what he will be ☝

[Archied]

24 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Well unless we pay him off, sell him, or he agrees to go on loan......Thats exactly what he will be ☝

Not sure I agree ,I may be wrong but if he doesn’t move out permanently or on loan he will sink into the background ,can’t see frank thinking we don’t need anybody in as we have Thorne, will be amazed if his time at derby is not over

[Parsnip]

13 hours ago, RamNut said:

we only have evans and thorne to pick from for the holding player. And that should be ok

You're kidding? I'll be massively surprised if George is any part of Derby's future. He's 26 now and really hardly played any football at all. He was a brilliant prospect but his injuries have destroyed his career. All those years that he should have been developing into a Premier league class player have just been spent recovering from injury. If he ever even remotely gets back up to Championship class it'll be a huge achievement for him. I hope he does - but by then Derby will be a mid table Premier League club anyway.

[Ghost of Clough]

21 hours ago, RamNut said:

I'm not yet convinced that he is finished.

i suspect we want him out either because he's on mega money or because of the extras payable to west brom, but there is no reason why he can't recover from the injuries he has had. His acl was yonks ago, and a broken leg is not going to finish a player ( ref dave mackay)

he looked in good shape, and was playing ok in the u23s. Nothing spectacular admittedly.

if huddz goes, we only have evans and thorne to pick from for the holding player. And that should be ok.

Plus Bird and Shinnie

[RamNut]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Plus Bird and Shinnie

Dunno maybe. Bird is very young and looks a bit lightweight. Could even be a more attacking player. Will he be out on loan?

[VulcanRam]

On 25/04/2019 at 09:57, RamNut said:

I'm not yet convinced that he is finished.

i suspect we want him out either because he's on mega money or because of the extras payable to west brom, but there is no reason why he can't recover from the injuries he has had. His acl was yonks ago, and a broken leg is not going to finish a player ( ref dave mackay)

he looked in good shape, and was playing ok in the u23s. Nothing spectacular admittedly.

if huddz goes, we only have evans and thorne to pick from for the holding player. And that should be ok.

I think it will be whatever the total and exact opposite of ok is. 

[Smyth_18]

On 25/04/2019 at 09:57, RamNut said:

 but there is no reason why he can't recover from the injuries he has had. His acl was yonks ago, and a broken leg is not going to finish a player ( ref dave mackay)

he looked in good shape, and was playing ok in the u23s. Nothing spectacular admittedly.

 

He has had 2 ACL injuries, a badly broken leg, and several knock on muscular injuries/ strains. In the modern game that is catastrophic.

[cheron85]

9 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

He has had 2 ACL injuries, a badly broken leg, and several knock on muscular injuries/ strains. In the modern game that is catastrophic.

I think in the modern game that's more survivable than it once was - Back in the day an ACL was career ending

I have lost hope of GT coming back and performing for us - As much as I desperately want him to - I honestly don't think the injuries are as much a factor as the pounding his confidence must have taken with the way Rowett treated him after the Sunderland game - He may not have looked like 13/14 Thorne last season but he looked a capable Championship CM still in the games he played - And now he's not capable of getting a game for Luton? 

[Archied]

22 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I think in the modern game that's more survivable than it once was - Back in the day an ACL was career ending

I have lost hope of GT coming back and performing for us - As much as I desperately want him to - I honestly don't think the injuries are as much a factor as the pounding his confidence must have taken with the way Rowett treated him after the Sunderland game - He may not have looked like 13/14 Thorne last season but he looked a capable Championship CM still in the games he played - And now he's not capable of getting a game for Luton? 

I think what a lot of people don’t take into account is the total disruption to the players progression, even if his body and mind are well healed from the injuries he has lost so much time and experience at a vital time when he would be transitioning from a youngish player with real potential to the finished article , he has lost so much time at a vital stage of his career , wasn’t he coming  off a long injury lay off before he came to us ? 

 

[Smyth_18]

30 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I think in the modern game that's more survivable than it once was - Back in the day an ACL was career ending

 

I personally think it would still be similar to back in the day in some cases. Whilst the medical treatment has massively improved, so has the general fitness aspect and speed of the game.

[cannable]

9 minutes ago, Archied said:

I think what a lot of people don’t take into account is the total disruption to the players progression, even if his body and mind are well healed from the injuries he has lost so much time and experience at a vital time when he would be transitioning from a youngish player with real potential to the finished article , he has lost so much time at a vital stage of his career , wasn’t he coming  off a long injury lay off before he came to us ? 

 

Yeah.

Since the 30th of January 2013 he’s played 5,674 minutes of professional football, which equates to 63 full games in over six years.

[cheron85]

8 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

I personally think it would still be similar to back in the day in some cases. Whilst the medical treatment has massively improved, so has the general fitness aspect and speed of the game.

Yeh but smart players adapt - And Thorne always seemed to have a 'football brain' - His positioning sense was excellent - It's not like he ever had much speed to rely on anyway!

The way I think of it is players like Gerrard who as he got older lost that ability to box-to-box all game so adapted his game to play deeper

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

I think in the modern game that's more survivable than it once was - Back in the day an ACL was career ending

I have lost hope of GT coming back and performing for us - As much as I desperately want him to - I honestly don't think the injuries are as much a factor as the pounding his confidence must have taken with the way Rowett treated him after the Sunderland game - He may not have looked like 13/14 Thorne last season but he looked a capable Championship CM still in the games he played - And now he's not capable of getting a game for Luton? 

Agree. Around early December when he was coming back into the team he looked really good and a lot of people were crying out for him to get his new contract, which he did.

I know i have said it so many times, he suffered due to the formation, which got worse as time went by, then thrown totally under the bus by rowett when hudds and ledley were doing no better.

 

[The Key Club King]

Regardless of how or why the injuries have made him less effective it is clear now that a number of managers do not think he is good enough anymore. It is unfortunate that he went on loan to a team that is flying and he cannot break into a winning squad. Hopefully next year he goes on loan to a League Two team that will give him an opportunity to show where his level lies now. I hope he is still at a level that allows him to remain a professional footballer.

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I think in the modern game that's more survivable than it once was - Back in the day an ACL was career ending

I have lost hope of GT coming back and performing for us - As much as I desperately want him to - I honestly don't think the injuries are as much a factor as the pounding his confidence must have taken with the way Rowett treated him after the Sunderland game - He may not have looked like 13/14 Thorne last season but he looked a capable Championship CM still in the games he played - And now he's not capable of getting a game for Luton? 

I know it remains fashionable to blame Rowett for everything still causing issues at the club, but if Thorne’s current issues relate to being dropped after a very poor game “pounding his confidence” then he really isn’t cut out for anything other than semi-pro football.  If his head is not right it is probably because he has lost trust in his body. Very sad.

[cheron85]

28 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I know it remains fashionable to blame Rowett for everything still causing issues at the club, but if Thorne’s current issues relate to being dropped after a very poor game “pounding his confidence” then he really isn’t cut out for anything other than semi-pro football.  If his head is not right it is probably because he has lost trust in his body. Very sad.

I don't think it's that simple - I had a bad line manager at one job and quit it after 6 months - I was even planning to leave the industry - It shook me so much I assumed I just wasn't capable of working at the level I thought I was supposed to be - Took a few months out, ended up taking another role doing the same thing at a different company and within 6 months of being there I'd been promoted - So turns out it wasn't my skills, I was just in the wrong environment to succeed - But it threw me off my game for a whole year

Plus it's not a single game - It's the after effects of it - He had one bad game, the manager slammed him and Ledley (I think?) - Ledley's back in a few games later and Thorne never appears under Rowett again - That's a good few months of being made to feel like carp in front of all of your colleagues with the knowledge that you can't just hand in your notice and leave - In any other job the manager would be called up to HR for a very very sharp word

[DavesaRam]

21 hours ago, cheron85 said:

I don't think it's that simple - I had a bad line manager at one job and quit it after 6 months - I was even planning to leave the industry - It shook me so much I assumed I just wasn't capable of working at the level I thought I was supposed to be - Took a few months out, ended up taking another role doing the same thing at a different company and within 6 months of being there I'd been promoted - So turns out it wasn't my skills, I was just in the wrong environment to succeed - But it threw me off my game for a whole year

Plus it's not a single game - It's the after effects of it - He had one bad game, the manager slammed him and Ledley (I think?) - Ledley's back in a few games later and Thorne never appears under Rowett again - That's a good few months of being made to feel like carp in front of all of your colleagues with the knowledge that you can't just hand in your notice and leave - In any other job the manager would be called up to HR for a very very sharp word

In addition Rowett played a two DM formation almost exclusively and that does not suit George at all. He was imperious when playing the lone DM role. It typified Rowett’s negative approach to football, and why it was so unpleasant to watch.

 

 Having two DMs also takes a player either out of midfield or up front. So as well as having to get match fit, GT was playing in a system that stifled his abilities.

 

Thanks, Gary.

 

Oh, and thanks for leaving.