The Politics Thread 2019

[Wolfie]

No sign of any evidence for NHS being up for sale, despite news organisations crawling all over the documents.

From SKY:

But Sky's economics editor Ed Conway said the documents do not, at first reading, "contain any smoking guns".

He said: "It's remarkable how little the NHS itself comes up in these talks. Indeed, the American negotiators are reported as being "sensitive to the particular sensitivities with the health sector in the UK". That actually sounds more restrained than I'd have expected.

"There's some evidence of 'fishing expeditions' by the Americans on 'health insurance'. They seem to have been politely rebuttted. Interesting, if not altogether unexpected. But not, as far as I can tell, a smoking gun of a plot to privatise the NHS or put it 'on the table'."

https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-corbyn-produces-evidence-nhs-is-up-for-sale-under-tories-11871537

and from the BBC...

The documents make reference to the US wanting "total market access" as a starting point for trade talks generally - only excluding areas that are specifically placed on a so-called negative list.

Could Corbyn have shot himself in the foot with the big press conference to announce.......not a lot, really?. If nothing incriminating is found, he could end up helping Boris.

 

[Rev]

Boris says the NHS is off the table, and I believe him.

Didn't deny it was waiting on a trolley in the corridor, mind.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

2 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

I don't believe he wants to eradicate business. He does want to nationalise some of them and milk the rest until they (likely) re-locate or go bust.

I don't think you can blame Corbyn for Jaguar's decision to build a new factory in Slovakia, BMW's decision to produce the Mini in the Netherlands or Honda's decision to close their Swindon plant. These companies are not running away from socialism.

You can blame Brexit.

[TimRam]

14 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I don't think you can blame Corbyn for Jaguar's decision to build a new factory in Slovakia, BMW's decision to produce the Mini in the Netherlands or Honda's decision to close their Swindon plant. These companies are not running away from socialism.

You can blame Brexit.

Not that fussed about £20k+ cars. I am concerned about companies leaving enmasse due to Labours planned asset grab to fund their magic money tree.

[AndyinLiverpool]

5 minutes ago, TimRam said:

Not that fussed about £20k+ cars. I am concerned about companies leaving enmasse due to Labours planned asset grab to fund their magic money tree.

For example?

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

A record number of people registered to vote yesterday. I wonder what the demographics  of all these new voters are and what affect they could have on the election.

Or if they will vote twice and boast about it :)

 

 

[maxjam]

I think whether or not the average person thinks Corbyn is or Labour are anti-semitic will have little to do with their decision to vote Labour or not, there are to many other issues to be far more concerned about.  Partisans on both sides will throw it around but I'd guess that most people simply don't care, certainly not all that much.

I did find it odd however that he couldn't apologise for systemic anti-semitism in last nights interview or confirm that he would take a ISIS terrorist leader out.  Maybe its got something to do with the 200k Jewish votes compared to 4m Muslim votes...

For balance, here are a series of tweets detailing some of the accusations Corbyn has been accused of;

 

Here is another series of 30 or so tweets from Maajid Nawaz that you may or may not find interesting about Labour anti-semitism;

 

And finally another series of tweets from Maajid Nawaz comparing Labour anti-semitism to ToryBoris John anti-Muslim bigotry;

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I don't think you can blame Corbyn for Jaguar's decision to build a new factory in Slovakia, BMW's decision to produce the Mini in the Netherlands or Honda's decision to close their Swindon plant. These companies are not running away from socialism.

You can blame Brexit.

Can you?

When did Brexit happen?

I must have missed it.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Manifesto promise that the NHS is not being discussed.

Is this a first, that a party managed to break a manifesto commitment before the election?

Boris Johnson's Tory party is funded by a select bunch of hedge fund owners and private equity managers who expect to be given the opportunity to make money.

Brexit is designed to extract Britain from the EU's taxation directives so that more of that money can be stashed away from the public.

And there are no plans to sell off the NHS??????

[Uptherams]

So I have watched Nigel Farage's Question Time after seeing all the others. He made a fantastic point about the car industry. If we are going to continue down the path of electric vehicles, many more jobs will be lost than all the scaremongering pre and post referendum. Electric vehicles have very few moving parts. The impact this will have on the market is profound. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, GboroRam said:

Manifesto promise that the NHS is not being discussed.

Is this a first, that a party managed to break a manifesto commitment before the election?

So if America brings up the NHS but are told its not on the table is that classed as Conservatives discussing it?

It would only be the first time if you choose to ignore the politicians that carried on campaigning for Remain despite their party manifestos promising to deliver Brexit...

[GboroRam]

13 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

So I have watched Nigel Farage's Question Time after seeing all the others. He made a fantastic point about the car industry. If we are going to continue down the path of electric vehicles, many more jobs will be lost than all the scaremongering pre and post referendum. Electric vehicles have very few moving parts. The impact this will have on the market is profound. 

Thankfully with 3-4% on the polls, that is utterly irrelevant. Question is, why do we still have to listen to a party marginally less popular than Lord buckethead? 

[Gritstone Ram]

6 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Thankfully with 3-4% on the polls, that is utterly irrelevant. Question is, why do we still have to listen to a party marginally less popular than Lord buckethead? 

He’d get my vote.

[Sith Happens]

Corbyn isn't my favourite person,  but if he feels there is nothing to apologise for then why should he?

He obviously doesn't believe there is an issue. He is either right,  or not.

 

 

[maxjam]

22 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Thankfully with 3-4% on the polls, that is utterly irrelevant. Question is, why do we still have to listen to a party marginally less popular than Lord buckethead? 

Cos he's the leader of the 4th main party that could potentially shore up a Tory government?

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Thankfully with 3-4% on the polls, that is utterly irrelevant. Question is, why do we still have to listen to a party marginally less popular than Lord buckethead? 

You dont have to listen, that's the beauty of these things, nobody forces you to listen to him.

I'd say its cutting off your nose to spite your face though if you ignore some of the good points he raises, just because it is him making them.

Just out of interest, do you take the same attitude towards independent MPs?

[Sith Happens]

32 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So if America brings up the NHS but are told its not on the table is that classed as Conservatives discussing it?

It would only be the first time if you choose to ignore the politicians that carried on campaigning for Remain despite their party manifestos promising to deliver Brexit...

When I first saw the news i thought boris you might have been found out here, however as news has developed through the day it seems the nhs is mentioned maybe 4 times over 400 plus pages and it is as you say the minutes of meetings with the US and nothing more.

Corbyn seems to have suggested that its 400 plus pages discussing the NHS.

The thing is one of them is clearly lying,however im not going to, and don't think many of the public will actually read it and understand it, so they will rely on their preferred news outlets to give them guidance.

Any publication short or long, if you take a single sentence or paragraph can be taken out of context. 

Personally i think corbyn is grabbing at straws, but part of me wouldn't have been surprised if the government haven't at least investigated and considered the US request

 

 

 

[GboroRam]

5 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

When I first saw the news i thought boris you might have been found out here, however as news has developed through the day it seems the nhs is mentioned maybe 4 times over 400 plus pages and it is as you say the minutes of meetings with the US and nothing more.

Corbyn seems to have suggested that its 400 plus pages discussing the NHS.

The thing is one of them is clearly lying,however im not going to, and don't think many of the public will actually read it and understand it, so they will rely on their preferred news outlets to give them guidance.

Any publication short or long, if you take a single sentence or paragraph can be taken out of context. 

Personally i think corbyn is grabbing at straws, but part of me wouldn't have been surprised if the government haven't at least investigated and considered the US request

 

 

 

Personally I think that Corbyn is not a habitual liar, which is unusual for politicians, and because of that I'm inclined to think he may be telling the truth. Now we need to see the full details. 

[Uptherams]

39 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Thankfully with 3-4% on the polls, that is utterly irrelevant. Question is, why do we still have to listen to a party marginally less popular than Lord buckethead? 

Out of all the leaders, his was the best and most honest. 

[GboroRam]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just out of interest, do you take the same attitude towards independent MPs?

Yes I do. Either every independent MP gets airtime on the main channels or none do - including the single figure percentage point brexit "party".