The Politics Thread 2019

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I think you are pretending not to understand. You know full well that trade arrangements between us and the EU will be quite different when we leave. 

I was of the understanding that the trade arrangement was not being discussed until the withdrawal agreement had been signed off, could be wrong though.

[AndyinLiverpool]

4 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I was of the understanding that the trade arrangement was not being discussed until the withdrawal agreement had been signed off, could be wrong though.

And in the meantime what?

[G STAR RAM]

18 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

And in the meantime what?

In the interest of both parties I would imagine a transition period where we continue to trade on the same terms as we currently do. Happy to be corrected if this is incorrect though.

[GboroRam]

17 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

And in the meantime what?

I presume with a "deal" Brexit it continues as now until the WA is signed off. No Deal was the major risk where we would end up with the situation where goods could/should be blocked from entering or exiting the country as the standards will be different between the EU and the UK so need to be checked before being permitted through.

With a deal, we just pay more.

[G STAR RAM]

368 pages and me and @GboroRamhave finally agreed on something.

If ever proof was required that we are making progress with Brexit, that is it right there!

[Stive Pesley]

16 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

And that sums up the EU, we pay vast amounts into it for them to redistribute the money to MEPs for doing nothing.

Hmmm - not sure this is a sound argument. A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy in that we've elected a lot of "protest vote" anti-EU MEPs who don't do anything on principle.  Where we have decent hard-working MEPs (like Majid in Sheffield) they can actually make a difference.

They are elected to represent the interests of the people in their region at a European level. They vote on EU laws and can approve, reject or amend them - much like our own parliament. These are our elected representatives. If Leave areas elected anti-EU MEPs who don't turn up then more fool them - but to put it forward as an argument as to why the EU is flawed is disingenuous at best. 

Plenty of things wrong with the EU that need fixing but the MEP system is not one of them

[A Ram for All Seasons]

34 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

"Goods could/should be blocked from entering or exiting the country as the standards will be different between the EU and the UK"

What about trade in services, which have become very much more important since Margret Thatcher decided that Britain would stop making things and everybody would work in a bank.

For instance, EU countries could protect their markets by refusing to recognise qualifications or insisting that British companies set up subsidiaries in the EU that are are regulated by EU authorities.

That will put many small service companies out of business.

[GboroRam]

16 hours ago, Norman said:

Yeah, they call him Poland. 

Well, in our office there's 3 people in the biscuit club. Neil and Matt are best mates, so we could have a vote as to who walks down to the shop to buy the biscuits - but they'd vote for me to do it each week. Or we could just take turns.

Which is most democratic? Remember, one is voted for and the other isn't.

[GboroRam]

Just now, A Ram for All Seasons said:

What about trade in services, which have become very much more important since Margret Thatcher decided that Britain would stop making things and everybody would work in a bank.

For instance, EU countries could protect their markets by refusing to recognise qualifications or insisting that British companies set up subsidiaries in the EU that are are regulated by EU authorities.

That will put many small service companies out of business.

Again to be fair to G Star, that's for no deal. Any deal will agree some reciprocation of service level and standards, or some mechanism of agreeing changes once we diversify. But that's dependent on a deal - and why the suggestion of a no deal being worth consideration makes no sense to me. A deal puts lots of red tape in play, the kind of red tape that Brexit supporters were trying to leave behind by leaving the EU.

The very suggestion that no deal is better than a bad deal is disingenuous. By definition a deal is a bad deal, in comparison with remaining. You can't and won't get the same terms as we had before, despite the rhetoric from before the vote. No deal is worse than any deal you can negotiate, where nothing is approved.

[uttoxram75]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Interesting, how many people on this thread use their own personal circumstances as a reason not to leave the EU?

Same argument?

The battle to save the NHS won't go away after we leave so I'm not sure what your point is?

[G STAR RAM]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Hmmm - not sure this is a sound argument. A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy in that we've elected a lot of "protest vote" anti-EU MEPs who don't do anything on principle.  Where we have decent hard-working MEPs (like Majid in Sheffield) they can actually make a difference.

They are elected to represent the interests of the people in their region at a European level. They vote on EU laws and can approve, reject or amend them - much like our own parliament. These are our elected representatives. If Leave areas elected anti-EU MEPs who don't turn up then more fool them - but to put it forward as an argument as to why the EU is flawed is disingenuous at best. 

Plenty of things wrong with the EU that need fixing but the MEP system is not one of them

So you agree with paying MEPs even when they dont turn up?

[Angry Ram]

2 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

The battle to save the NHS won't go away after we leave so I'm not sure what your point is?

It was just a general comment about people putting their personal circumstance before the bigger picture.

[GboroRam]

56 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you agree with paying MEPs even when they dont turn up?

I'd be happy with refusing to pay those who don't attend, unless there was a medical reason underlying.

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

So you agree with paying MEPs even when they dont turn up?

No - of course not. I don't understand the mentality of voting for an  anti-EU MEP to NOT represent you in EU parliament. Seems a completely counter-intuitive thing to do if you are unhappy with how EU money is spent

 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

10 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Think I read somewhere that Johnson invented that story himself when his job was to live in Brussels and make lies up about the EU for the Telegraph.

Can I have exact link please.  I will also require confirmation in triplicate in your handwriting signed in your own blood. This will be followed by interrogation by ducking stool and half an hour on the rack to ensure no conspiracy. (watching the season 07/08 season review would be an accepted alternative) Can't actually be allowed to think you read somewhere on this thread.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

6 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Interesting, how many people on this thread use their own personal circumstances as a reason not to leave the EU?

Same argument?

I certainly put my own personal circumstances before those of some toff hedge fund manager trying to cream off assets from the NHS and to get round EU tax avoidance directives.

[Stive Pesley]

Anyway - here's one for the leave voters (who no-one is suggesting for a minute had no idea what they were voting for...oh no)

If Nigel Farage (of the Brexit Party) is saying that the deal negotiated by Boris Johnson (of the "Let's get Brexit Done" Tory Party) is "a bad old treaty and simply it is not Brexit" - then what are we to believe?

If the two leading proponents of Brexit cannot agree on what Brexit is then 

1) how can anyone know what they actually voted for

2) how can this be the fault of Corbyn? He can't have thwarted Brexit and simultaneously saved us from something that is simply not Brexit" can he?

 

 

[Norman]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

It was just a general comment about people putting their personal circumstance before the bigger picture.

My working conditions will improve significantly. 

It's just a fact. But I'm not allowed to vote Leave.

50 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

No - of course not. I don't understand the mentality of voting for an  anti-EU MEP to NOT represent you in EU parliament. Seems a completely counter-intuitive thing to do if you are unhappy with how EU money is spent

 

It's worked though, has it not?

[Stive Pesley]

3 minutes ago, Norman said:

It's worked though, has it not?

In what way??

[Norman]

1 minute ago, SchtivePesley said:

In what way??

Brexit.