ramsbottom Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 19 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Didn't even need to go to the trouble to find 4 things, any one of them in isolation would make me think he's a knob. What he does in his personal life is nothing to do with his football life, hence why I said I will support him as a DCFC player. Does not stop me from having an opinion on him as a person does it? 18 hours ago, ariotofmyown said: After all the media treatment of Sterling, I'm re-evaluating what I thought of the likes of Cole, plus the likes of Terry and Rooney. Non-sports media are scum and they love to pick people to attack. Rich black players are ideal, likewise player's from poor background who may not be brilliant and public speaking. If you get both, like Sterling, that's ideal. From within football, you hardly ever heard a bad word about Cole and Terry. I'm sure Lamps started off getting loads of negative media, but been polite and good looking helped him. If you want role models, go see a priest. Ahem. It maybe worth remembering that our very own manager got a lot of flack for acting like a drunken idiot in front of a load of Americans shortly (I think a couple of days) after 9/11. He's not been whiter than white in the past but I guess certain papers & fans can forgive and forget. Probably because he is whiter than white... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, ramsbottom said: It maybe worth remembering that our very own manager got a lot of flack for acting like a drunken idiot in front of a load of Americans shortly (I think a couple of days) after 9/11. He's not been whiter than white in the past but I guess certain papers & fans can forgive and forget. Probably because he is whiter than white... Or maybe because it was a one off incident? Really hope you're not intimating that my views are anything to do with his skin colour. Wayne Rooney is white, another player I admired as a player but thought as a person he was a complete knob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollycutts1982 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 14 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Or maybe because it was a one off incident? Really hope you're not intimating that my views are anything to do with his skin colour. Wayne Rooney is white, another player I admired as a player but thought as a person he was a complete knob. I guess it’s what happens when you take kids from poor backgrounds and give them a rediculous amount of money. Same can be said of kids from privaliged backgrounds. Earning more in a month/year than most normal people earn in a lifetime is bound to totally detach them from normality. Every makes mistakes but when you live in the public eye you become an easy targets. Most of the stories surrounding footballers are non stories and are only made so because of the individual involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 15 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Or maybe because it was a one off incident? Really hope you're not intimating that my views are anything to do with his skin colour. Wayne Rooney is white, another player I admired as a player but thought as a person he was a complete knob. I'm just pointing out the fact that our manager isn't a saint, and that the incident didn't affect his performances on the pitch, just like Cole, every one who talks about him seem to hold the same opinion, that he's a dedicated professional. I do believe some black players can be victimised no matter what they do. A player formerly of our parish Tom Ince copped a huge amount of flack due to, supposedly, being lazy & surly, despite the fact he was one of our most consistent performers while he was here. Just because he didn't run around the pitch beaming from ear to ear, people had the perception he had an attitude problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: I'm just pointing out the fact that our manager isn't a saint, and that the incident didn't affect his performances on the pitch, just like Cole, every one who talks about him seem to hold the same opinion, that he's a dedicated professional. I do believe some black players can be victimised no matter what they do. A player formerly of our parish Tom Ince copped a huge amount of flack due to, supposedly, being lazy & surly, despite the fact he was one of our most consistent performers while he was here. Just because he didn't run around the pitch beaming from ear to ear, people had the perception he had an attitude problem. I didn't know Butterfield was black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: I do believe some black players can be victimised no matter what they do. A player formerly of our parish Tom Ince copped a huge amount of flack due to, supposedly, being lazy & surly, despite the fact he was one of our most consistent performers while he was here. Just because he didn't run around the pitch beaming from ear to ear, people had the perception he had an attitude problem. A very flippant remark and one that is both damaging to our fanbase and also very inflammatory. Would be prepared to make the same remark to a BAME fan being critical of Keogh, Butterfield or Lawrence? They are all players who I think are unfairly targeted and all of them are white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, ollycutts1982 said: I guess it’s what happens when you take kids from poor backgrounds and give them a rediculous amount of money. Same can be said of kids from privaliged backgrounds. Earning more in a month/year than most normal people earn in a lifetime is bound to totally detach them from normality. Every makes mistakes but when you live in the public eye you become an easy targets. Most of the stories surrounding footballers are non stories and are only made so because of the individual involved. I know plenty of kids from poor backgrounds who don’t get loads of money and are knobs ,, if your a knob your a knob ,, you can be a decent person who in isolation does something knobish , you can be a knob and then learn , grow out of it , stop being a knob , guess what I’m saying is I will wait and see how he gets on 1, as a footballer for our club ,,,2, how he comes across as a person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, ramsbottom said: I'm just pointing out the fact that our manager isn't a saint, and that the incident didn't affect his performances on the pitch, just like Cole, every one who talks about him seem to hold the same opinion, that he's a dedicated professional. I do believe some black players can be victimised no matter what they do. A player formerly of our parish Tom Ince copped a huge amount of flack due to, supposedly, being lazy & surly, despite the fact he was one of our most consistent performers while he was here. Just because he didn't run around the pitch beaming from ear to ear, people had the perception he had an attitude problem. don't agree that is a black thing though, Derby fans tend to prefer those that run around a lot irrespective of their backgrounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, Spanish said: don't agree that is a black thing though, Derby fans tend to prefer those that run around a lot irrespective of their backgrounds That's what always annoys me when people refer to Bryson & Johnny Russell as Derby legends, just because they had a good engine. I'd like to think the least any fan could do if suddenly plonked into a starting 11 for the mighty Rams would be run around a lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: A very flippant remark and one that is both damaging to our fanbase and also very inflammatory. Would be prepared to make the same remark to a BAME fan being critical of Keogh, Butterfield or Lawrence? They are all players who I think are unfairly targeted and all of them are white. Well no, because people are critical of those players because of their footballing ability, not because of their, supposed, attitude problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: Well no, because people are critical of those players because of their footballing ability, not because of their, supposed, attitude problems I thought people were critical of Ince over supposed laziness, which is related to football rather than him as a person. Very much the same criticism is levelled at Lawrence. Wasn't Butterfield vilified because he doesn't smile enough? Keogh because of the way he speaks in interviews? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I thought people were critical of Ince over supposed laziness, which is related to football rather than him as a person. Very much the same criticism is levelled at Lawrence. Wasn't Butterfield vilified because he doesn't smile enough? Keogh because of the way he speaks in interviews? Laziness comes from attitude. Ince was far from a lazy player and tracked back as much as any other player under Clement, Mac 2 & Rowett. Same goes for Lawrence under Rowett & Frank. Butterfield is vilified more for being crap at what he's meant to be, an attacking/creative midfielder. He's Bryson without the stamina. But yes, he does come across as a miserable sod... Keogh's interview technique is waaaaay down the list of his hater's complaints. I think we could discuss the faults of other players all day, but a lot of the abuse towards Ince was due to him being lazy, arrogant & not a team player. All of which, IMHO, was not reflected in the way he played. I think he was simply being looked at that way, consciously or unconsciously, because of the colour of his skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, ramsbottom said: I think we could discuss the faults of other players all day, but a lot of the abuse towards Ince was due to him being lazy, arrogant & not a team player. All of which, IMHO, was not reflected in the way he played. I think he was simply being looked at that way, consciously or unconsciously, because of the colour of his skin. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Johnny Russell wasn’t the best winger this club has ever seen, but he had that charm about him which fans loved and took to, the cheeky smile, always seemed to be laughing and joking around in the content which the club put out. Some still look out for him and see how he’s getting on. Where as Ince never really showed a personality that fans could warm to, a straight face, one that appeared to be focussed, on the pitch he was a far far better player than Russell. Unquestionably better. But was labelled as arrogant, diagnosed with an attitude problem because he never really connected with the fans. Russell could get away with more as he was liked so much. It’s harsh, very harsh, if you was to pick one to put in our team now it shouldn’t really be a contest, Ince hands down, but if asked who would you like to go for a pint with it’s Russell. I don’t buy it’s down to race at all. Take Curtis Davies for example, fans were calling for him to be given the arm band, made club captain. Why? He connected with the fans on Social media, never hid despite defeat and showed a humorous side. He made mistakes on the pitch himself, but wasn’t crucified for them which Keogh would have. Some would have him in the team ahead of Keogh now, even though he doesn’t suit the style of football. You can find similar examples at every club up and down the country, managers included. Connect with the fans and you’re half way to becoming a legend these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I bet everything said about Ince has been said about Lawrence. I can't think of a single criticism aimed at one but not the other. I find it so boring hearing about how life isn't fair for your black man in the civilised world. I'm sure there are some serious racism issues but because the "cus I'm black" thing is everywhere it's just so tedious. It's doing harm not good. I don't need to be race aware when I'm watching football. Just gets on people's tits. When there is genuine racism your going to find people less concerned if you keep telling them they are racist. If you think being black is hard then try being Asian. I'm not Asian btw but I can see how there's more of a problem there. But still, Terence Crawford talking poo about being black has done my head in this week. He's about to fight Amir Khan. And he's talking about how black fighters are expected to behave in a certain way. Bore off. I don't like Khan but I imagine he's faced discrimination more times than Terence fecking Crawford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, ramsbottom said: I think we could discuss the faults of other players all day, but a lot of the abuse towards Ince was due to him being lazy, arrogant & not a team player. All of which, IMHO, was not reflected in the way he played. I think he was simply being looked at that way, consciously or unconsciously, because of the attitude of his father. FTFY. You were almost there, but you let your personal absurd perspective cloud the quite obvious truth of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted January 24, 2019 Author Share Posted January 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, SaintRam said: FTFY. You were almost there, but you let your personal absurd perspective cloud the quite obvious truth of the situation. Possibly. But I wouldn't call my perspective absurd, it happens. Just ask Raheem Stirling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 3 hours ago, ramsbottom said: Laziness comes from attitude. Ince was far from a lazy player and tracked back as much as any other player under Clement, Mac 2 & Rowett. Same goes for Lawrence under Rowett & Frank. Butterfield is vilified more for being crap at what he's meant to be, an attacking/creative midfielder. He's Bryson without the stamina. But yes, he does come across as a miserable sod... Keogh's interview technique is waaaaay down the list of his hater's complaints. I think we could discuss the faults of other players all day, but a lot of the abuse towards Ince was due to him being lazy, arrogant & not a team player. All of which, IMHO, was not reflected in the way he played. I think he was simply being looked at that way, consciously or unconsciously, because of the colour of his skin. Never heard such prejudiced clap trap in my life , it’s attitudes like yours that will keep fanning the flames of racism long after the ignorance of real racists could and should be eradicated mainly by education ,, i beleive you are judging people’s motives for their views on Ince simply by the colour of their skin ,, is it only white people who don’t rate Ince ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 3 hours ago, David said: Where as Ince never really showed a personality that fans could warm to, a straight face His dad is a bit of a nob too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 43 minutes ago, Archied said: Never heard such prejudiced clap trap in my life , it’s attitudes like yours that will keep fanning the flames of racism long after the ignorance of real racists could and should be eradicated mainly by education ,, i beleive you are judging people’s motives for their views on Ince simply by the colour of their skin ,, is it only white people who don’t rate Ince ? The people who don’t rate ince are idiots, not just white people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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