Ashley Cole is a Ram

[cheron85]

5 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

I think that you slightly underrate him due to his nationality.

We've had this discussion in the pub a few times - We criminally under-rate our defenders because of some perceived glamour of foreign defenders

Cole was a world class left back - By that I mean "Would he enter discussions for an annual world best team" and the answer absolutely is yes over the course of probably 10 years

I've often said the same thing about Ferdinand and Terry - We always knew they made a good defensive unit but the benefit of time makes me look back at them and put them in the quality level of World Class too

[Sexydadbod]

Just now, cheron85 said:

We've had this discussion in the pub a few times - We criminally under-rate our defenders because of some perceived glamour of foreign defenders

Cole was a world class left back - By that I mean "Would he enter discussions for an annual world best team" and the answer absolutely is yes over the course of probably 10 years

I've often said the same thing about Ferdinand and Terry - We always knew they made a good defensive unit but the benefit of time makes me look back at them and put them in the quality level of World Class too

No-one’s saying he wasn’t world class, he was, but he played in a period of other great left backs too. The UEFA team of the year(which actually meant something back then), was evidence of that as the left back changed year by year.

[SaintRam]

3 minutes ago, McLovin said:

I don’t understand what you’re asking me. Nearly every player in that team was called the best player in the world in their position, when the reality is , they probably weren’t.

I said YOU underrate Cole because of his nationality.

and you responded with what basically translates to "everyone else called that whole generation of England players the best players in the world." - which is not relevant, in fact it aids my point if anything.

Of that generation, I think Cole's one of the only one's deserving of being called the best player in the world.

[Comrade 86]

Cole was an absolute machine in his prime and his peers were always ready to say as much. Was he the best in the world? Dunno. Seems a pretty pointless debate really. What I think is fair to say is that in his prime he was the best in England by a long, long stretch. Looking at the video of him at Galaxy, one thing he certainly doesn't seem to have lost is his timing in the tackle and his passing ability. Doubtless he's lost a yard or two of pace but both on and off the pitch I reckon he'll prove to be an asset. Maybe Cheryl will do some halftime cheerleading in which case it's a win-win for me.

[cheron85]

47 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Lahm was a left back mate in that period, he only really transferred back to right back when Alaba came through at Bayern. 

I think he started at LB because they had Willy Sagnol at RB when he came through?

He switched to RB when they decided he was the best RB/Fullback/Defender they had at the club

And I personally think Lahm might be the best full-back of all time so he shouldn;t be the benchmark ? 

3 minutes ago, McLovin said:

No-one’s saying he wasn’t world class, he was, but he played in a period of other great left backs too. The UEFA team of the year(which actually meant something back then), was evidence of that as the left back changed year by year.

Oh yeh, that was a golden time for full backs - The ones we have now by comparison aren't impressive - But I reckon pretty much every England fan at the time would have chosen another teams LB ahead of him - And you would have had 12 different suggestions of who that would be - No one at the time used to talk about him being world class - At least not in my social circles anyway!

[G STAR RAM]

I've never really understood how people can argue and try and give in depth comparisons of players that they are not watching on a week-in, week-out basis.

[jimbo jones]

Soooooo

has he signed yet?

[Sexydadbod]

1 minute ago, SaintRam said:

I said YOU underrate Cole because of his nationality.

and you responded with what basically translates to "everyone else called that whole generation of England players the best players in the world." - which is not relevant, in fact it aids my point if anything.

Of that generation, I think Cole's one of the only one's deserving of being called the best player in the world.

Well that didn’t make much sense. And no, I didn’t underrate Cole. Evra was just has good as him in that period, for me better because he actually improved Man Utd whilst Chelsea got worse for a few years after Cole joined. You can’t deny that.  How many people outside of Man Utd fans called Evra the best left back in the world ? Not many, even though Evra played at a higher level than Cole did from 06-09. 

And you’re not understanding , I never said Cole wasn’t world class, he was but he wasn’t the outstanding best, there were other great left backs who played in that period too. There was never a clear cut best left back in that period, in changed year upon year where one player was slightly better than the rest, in 07 it was Abidal, Lahm 08, Evra 09, Cole 10.

[SaintRam]

All you folks mentioning Cheryl do realise they haven't been together for almost a decade, right?

I'm not that into celeb news though. Is she stalking him or something?

[SaintRam]

Just now, McLovin said:

Well that didn’t make much sense. And no, I didn’t underrate Cole. Evra was just has good as him in that period, for me better because he actually improved Man Utd whilst Chelsea got worse for a few years after Cole joined. You can’t deny that.  How many people outside of Man Utd fans called Evra the best left back in the world ? Not many, even though Evra played at a higher level than Cole did from 06-09. 

And you’re not understanding , I never said Cole wasn’t world class, he was but he wasn’t the outstanding best, there were other great left backs who played in that period too. There was never a clear cut best left back in that period, in changed year upon year where one player was slightly better than the rest, in 07 it was Abidal, Lahm 08, Evra 09, Cole 10.

Saying you didn't underrate Cole and then without even an ounce of misdirection immediately saying that Evra was just as good as him, tells me that you DEFINITELY underrated Cole.

Of course you accept that he was World Class - only a moron wouldn't - but you CAN underrate someone while simultaneously thinking they're world class. 

Anyway. It's by the by, I'm only keeping this going cos I've got work I'm trying to avoid but I've run out time of that score.

 

We think differently of Ashley Cole's career relative to the careers of other LB's. End of story.

[Sexydadbod]

7 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I think he started at LB because they had Willy Sagnol at RB when he came through?

He switched to RB when they decided he was the best RB/Fullback/Defender they had at the club

And I personally think Lahm might be the best full-back of all time so he shouldn;t be the benchmark ? 

Oh yeh, that was a golden time for full backs - The ones we have now by comparison aren't impressive - But I reckon pretty much every England fan at the time would have chosen another teams LB ahead of him - And you would have had 12 different suggestions of who that would be - No one at the time used to talk about him being world class - At least not in my social circles anyway!

Willy sagnol, well that’s a blast from the past! I knew I wasn’t going mad and I remember Lahm playing left back being brilliant in the 06 World Cup. It’s my fault really for starting this debate by mentioning the other great left backs(Maldini, Roberto Carlos, Evra, Abidal, Lahm , Marcelo). I think it might have been your social circles because at the time I remember having to mention to my friends that Cole wasn’t the clear cut best, there were other great left backs. Whenever Cole put in a good challenge, they used to say that’s why he’s the best in the world, no-one comes close to him!

And you’re  right about the quality of full backs declining. Even the right backs aren’t as good as they were back then when you had the likes of Maicon, Sagnol, Cafu, Thuram, Salgado, Zanetti , G Neville,  Zambrotta etc etc

[Sexydadbod]

17 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Saying you didn't underrate Cole and then without even an ounce of misdirection immediately saying that Evra was just as good as him, tells me that you DEFINITELY underrated Cole.

Of course you accept that he was World Class - only a moron wouldn't - but you CAN underrate someone while simultaneously thinking they're world class. 

Anyway. It's by the by, I'm only keeping this going cos I've got work I'm trying to avoid but I've run out time of that score.

 

We think differently of Ashley Cole's career relative to the careers of other LB's. End of story.

If you read, I said that Evra from 06-09 in comparison to Cole from 06-09 was as least as good as him, which he was in my opinion!!! Man Utd got to two champions league finals in a row and won three premier leagues in a row in that period. Evra was an important player of that team.  Cole actually struggled in that period in comparison to his form for Arsenal  but came into his own again when Ancelotti took over Chelsea.

[cheron85]

8 minutes ago, McLovin said:

I think it might have been your social circles because at the time I remember having to mention to my friends that Cole wasn’t the clear cut best, there were other great left backs. Whenever Cole put in a good challenge, they used to say that’s why he’s the best in the world, no-one comes close to him!

Haha quite possibly - We were always very swayed by Italian defences, German organisation and Spanish flair - Plus anything coming out of Brazil

[Rev]

Apart from Lahm, no one else mentioned was as good as Lizarazu.

[SaintRam]

Just now, reveldevil said:

Apart from Lahm, no one else mentioned was as good as Lizarazu.

Gesundheit!

[King Kevin]

All I want to know is he good enough for the Championship now?

[Sexydadbod]

1 minute ago, reveldevil said:

Apart from Lahm, no one else mentioned was as good as Lizarazu.

He was a brilliant player tbf but I think the reason we haven’t really mentioned him is that his time came slightly before the others. 

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, McLovin said:

I was merely pointing out that Ashley was never really the best left back in the world, it was more a period of great left backs, reflected in the UEFA team of the years which changed year by year, reflecting on the respective team successes.  My opinion was that Cole was slightly overrated due to his nationality. He was an excellent 1 v1 defender but he wasn’t the best going forward. Evra was just as good at him at their best.  It depends when you think Cole was his prime at the end of the day.

At the moment to see how Cole is at the moment , I’ve looked through different through different sites and this comment stood out to me 

“90% of this video is Ashley Cole out of position and way up the pitch. His primary job is to defend, which Galaxy was atrocious at and that includes Cole. 

One of the reasons why Galaxy leaked goals was because Cole would be gassed by the 60th min every game and they finished the season conceding 64 goals, the 4th worst in the Western Conference... he managed 10 assists, which is remarkable but it was at the expense of defensive solidity and the Galaxy paid the price.”

That sounds awfully similar to our complaints about Lowe does it not?

 

Well 10 assists would be an improvement!

[Day]

4 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

Apart from Lahm, no one else mentioned was as good as Lizarazu.

He was alright but not a patch on Chris Powell

[Rev]

1 minute ago, McLovin said:

He was a brilliant player tbf but I think the reason we haven’t really mentioned him is that his time came slightly before the others. 

According to Wikipedia, he went on to become a European Ji-Jitisu(sic) champion!