cheron85 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, 86 points said: And yet only Leeds, Boro, Swansea and Forest have conceded fewer goals than us this season, with two of those sides being absolute shithouses. Hadn't actually realised that - I'm a big fan of our defence BTW and think it's nonsense that they're bad - But they do seem shaky compared to last year https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/championship/best-defence.html Interesting to see the goals conceded table with clean sheets overlayed - Only 6 teams with fewer clean sheets than us in the league BTW I'm not saying we should worry about it too much - We're not conceding too many - Only 2 teams have managed more than a goal against us and we create enough chances to have 2-3 goals every game - I'd rather watch this than the dire football of previous recent seasons But - The thing we have sacrificed (to an extent) for open, flowing, attacking football is the defensive cover we used to have - So we are (for me) a little shakier at the back - I just don't really mind that we are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 29 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Hadn't actually realised that - I'm a big fan of our defence BTW and think it's nonsense that they're bad - But they do seem shaky compared to last year https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/championship/best-defence.html Interesting to see the goals conceded table with clean sheets overlayed - Only 6 teams with fewer clean sheets than us in the league BTW I'm not saying we should worry about it too much - We're not conceding too many - Only 2 teams have managed more than a goal against us and we create enough chances to have 2-3 goals every game - I'd rather watch this than the dire football of previous recent seasons But - The thing we have sacrificed (to an extent) for open, flowing, attacking football is the defensive cover we used to have - So we are (for me) a little shakier at the back - I just don't really mind that we are! I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with this post...if that's possible?!?! I don't find myself sitting at matches thinking we look shaky in defence. But logically Bogle/Tomori for Wisdom/Davies clearly makes us more susceptible to conceding goals, although I would be interested to see the goals against stat from the comparative time last season. On the other hand I seem to remember Carson earning us a lot of points last season yet I struggle to think of many this season, so maybe he isn't being worked as hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, 86 points said: And yet only Leeds, Boro, Swansea and Forest have conceded fewer goals than us this season, with two of those sides being absolute shithouses. And it's worth pointing out that Carson kept us in games with a number of worldies last year, and there were a number of games where he was peppered with shots for most of the 90 minutes, yet this year hasn't been the case. So the defense must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, archram said: Maybe teams will start to think it’s not a good idea getting an early goal - it just makes us cross so we have to score more! Like if you were in a fight with mike Tyson. If you just raise your hands, he might give you a slap round the ear and leave you be. But if you have the audacity to punch him first, he’d give you an absolute pasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 I wonder if it is the fact that we are playing it out from the back and therefore occasionally losing the ball quite deep that is giving people the impression we are shaky at the back? Last season we lost the ball much more regularly but further upfield so it was the forwards who got the blame! As @86 points says, we are one of the best defences in the league still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, angieram said: I wonder if it is the fact that we are playing it out from the back and therefore occasionally losing the ball quite deep that is giving people the impression we are shaky at the back? Last season we lost the ball much more regularly but further upfield so it was the forwards who got the blame! As @86 points says, we are one of the best defences in the league still. That's exactly what it is IMO. This combined with the fact that under snakey we had two lines of defenders and no midfield. Goes without saying that we'd concede fewer goals but equally that we'd score fewer too. If we want attacking and fluid football where we try to build from the back where necessary, then this is the trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, 86 points said: That's exactly what it is IMO. This combined with the fact that under snakey we had two lines of defenders and no midfield. Goes without saying that we'd concede fewer goals but equally that we'd score fewer too. If we want attacking and fluid football where we try to build from the back where necessary, then this is the trade off. Weren't we fourth top scorers last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, 86 points said: That's exactly what it is IMO. This combined with the fact that under snakey we had two lines of defenders and no midfield. Goes without saying that we'd concede fewer goals but equally that we'd score fewer too. If we want attacking and fluid football where we try to build from the back where necessary, then this is the trade off. Gimme Frank’s style of play over snakey’s any day of the week trouble is where our defending is concerned it doesn’t do the old ticker any good at my time of life ? ....... come to think of it the attacking doesn’t help either given the amount of times already this season that I’ve be out of my chair\seat whooping & fist pumping ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: Hadn't actually realised that - I'm a big fan of our defence BTW and think it's nonsense that they're bad - But they do seem shaky compared to last year https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/championship/best-defence.html Interesting to see the goals conceded table with clean sheets overlayed - Only 6 teams with fewer clean sheets than us in the league BTW I'm not saying we should worry about it too much - We're not conceding too many - Only 2 teams have managed more than a goal against us and we create enough chances to have 2-3 goals every game - I'd rather watch this than the dire football of previous recent seasons But - The thing we have sacrificed (to an extent) for open, flowing, attacking football is the defensive cover we used to have - So we are (for me) a little shakier at the back - I just don't really mind that we are! At the same stage last season (16 games) we had scored two goals fewer, conceded two goals more and had acquired three fewer points. Care to re-appraise the highlighted paragraph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 58 minutes ago, angieram said: I wonder if it is the fact that we are playing it out from the back and therefore occasionally losing the ball quite deep that is giving people the impression we are shaky at the back? Last season we lost the ball much more regularly but further upfield so it was the forwards who got the blame! As @86 points says, we are one of the best defences in the league still. Fair comment. I guess it doesn't appear to be as stressful losing the ball 10 yards outside the opposition's box, after pinging it 40 yards to Nugent's head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 16 minutes ago, richinspain said: Weren't we fourth top scorers last season? We were indeed but would you suppose we might end up scoring more than any other team this year? After a slow start this season we've now scored 10 in in our last 4 league games, all of which were against teams considered tough prospects. If we maintained that rate of scoring over the last 30 matches we'd end up with 103 which would be a 33 more than last year. Only time will tell of course, but if you're suggesting that we won't score more this season playing the way we are currently, that's a bet I'd be very happy to lay ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, 86 points said: We were indeed but would you suppose we might end up scoring more than any other team this year? After a slow start this season we've now scored 10 in in our last 4 league games, all of which were against teams considered tough prospects. If we maintained that rate of scoring over the last 30 matches we'd end up with 103 which would be a 33 more than last year. Only time will tell of course, but if you're suggesting that we won't score more this season playing the way we are currently, that's a bet I'd be very happy to lay ? Oh yes we'll score more this year. I've absolutely no doubt about that. Just that you said we were set up to score fewer goals. It was lucky for the rest of the division because we'd have scored so many it would have been embarrassing. I actually like counter attacking football, however I do think that Rowett's style did go too far. You could easily say that a fair percentage of our goals this season have been scored on the counter. Frank sets the team up as a more offensive unit in general, but our counter attacks are absolutely deadly. For me this is what Rowett said he was going to do, but as usual it's not what he delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with this post...if that's possible?!?! I don't find myself sitting at matches thinking we look shaky in defence. But logically Bogle/Tomori for Wisdom/Davies clearly makes us more susceptible to conceding goals, although I would be interested to see the goals against stat from the comparative time last season. On the other hand I seem to remember Carson earning us a lot of points last season yet I struggle to think of many this season, so maybe he isn't being worked as hard? Yeh agreed - I feel less worried because we have the ball a lot more - But also feel like when we lose the ball we have less cover and players seem to only have the defence to beat - Where last season we played two DMs I feel like Carson has been as good this season as last - In fact I can't think of many goals he should have stopped this year? Maybe keeping the ball is the key to winning? Someone should tell Barcelona... 29 minutes ago, eddie said: At the same stage last season (16 games) we had scored two goals fewer, conceded two goals more and had acquired three fewer points. Care to re-appraise the highlighted paragraph? Yeh well stats schmatts eh eddie - The thing I've ALWAYS said is that stats are nonsense and only the evidence of my personal opinion sitting in the stands with my fingers in my ears is what matters... (I still FEEL like we're shakier at the back - But I admit the evidence seems to suggest we're not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, richinspain said: Oh yes we'll score more this year. I've absolutely no doubt about that. Just that you said we were set up to score fewer goals. It was lucky for the rest of the division because we'd have scored so many it would have been embarrassing. I actually like counter attacking football, however I do think that Rowett's style did go too far. You could easily say that a fair percentage of our goals this season have been scored on the counter. Frank sets the team up as a more offensive unit in general, but our counter attacks are absolutely deadly. For me this is what Rowett said he was going to do, but as usual it's not what he delivered. I meant fewer than the current crop. Apologies if that was not clear. Agree that Snakey took pragmatism rather too far. I've not got a complete down on him in that regard though, unlike some - he did secure us an unlikely play-off slot so it can be argued that there was some method to the madness. What's irrefutable is that Frank's team is better to watch (in spades) and that the counter-attacking style Snakey promised is easier to pull off when you actually have a midfield as Frank has clearly illustrated. I'd hazard a guess that we'll only concede a comparable number of goals to last year (if not, rather fewer) and that we'll also score a hatful more. If this proves correct then we'll go very close to winning this league and I'd not be unduly surprised if we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Yeh well stats schmatts eh eddie - The thing I've ALWAYS said is that stats are nonsense and only the evidence of my personal opinion sitting in the stands with my fingers in my ears is what matters... (I still FEEL like we're shakier at the back - But I admit the evidence seems to suggest we're not) Statistics are not nonsense - the misappropriation of statistics, though (see governments passim) - well, that's another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gisby Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, 86 points said: I meant fewer than the current crop. Apologies if that was not clear. Agree that Snakey took pragmatism rather too far. I've not got a complete down on him in that regard though, unlike some - he did secure us an unlikely play-off slot so it can be argued that there was some method to the madness. What's irrefutable is that Frank's team is better to watch (in spades) and that the counter-attacking style Snakey promised is easier to pull off when you actually have a midfield as Frank has clearly illustrated. I'd hazard a guess that we'll only concede a comparable number of goals to last year (if not, rather fewer) and that we'll also score a hatful more. If this proves correct then we'll go very close to winning this league and I'd not be unduly surprised if we do. We’ll deffo score more goals than last year, unlike previous seasons I’m very confident we will get better & better as the season progresses and as a result we’ll be handing out a few ‘tonkings’ between now and next April\May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 hours ago, richinspain said: Weren't we fourth top scorers last season? But it never felt like it though - well not to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 These are great days. Enjoy! Derby County.... What a Club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 43 minutes ago, Sparkle said: But it never felt like it though - well not to me It was due to the incredibly high conversion rate, at least in the first half of the season. In the second half when we dropped to about one shot every 5 games the conversion rate was even higher ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Sagan Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 Interesting (and very complimentary) scouting report on us from the Birmingham paper: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-Derby-birmingham-smith-15373926 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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