Ram of Steel Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 I know it's early days and I'm not writing the 433 off but I feel we have been far too open in the first couple of games, with players being caught out of position in midfield and defence and making us vulnerable to teams hitting us on the break. As well as this I really feel as though we have the personnel in the squad now that could excel playing in a 3 at the back formation. The players took to it well at the end of last season and in my opinion, the new players have the attributes to slot into it well also. Not to mention that JM has had a lot of success with it in the Chelsea youth teams. Lampard appears to like to have attacking full backs and this formation would give them license to get forward without having to worry as much about their positioning defensively. This would benefit Max Lowe in particular who seems to be caught out of position most and to me, at times looks more of a winger anyway. We'd also still be able to play a high press, but it would leave less space at the back to be exploited should a team manage to beat it. With 3 at the back we could see a lineup similar to the following with the wing backs providing the width and Wilson and Lawrence operating slightly more centrally: Carson Wisdom/Keogh Davies Tomori Wisdom/Bogle Lowe/Malone Huddlestone Mount Wilson Lawrence Marriott/Waghorn Going with 1 CAM and having Marriott and Waghorn up top together could also be an option. I know the 433 may work better when we have players such as Davies, Malone and Huddlestone all in the starting XI and that we're in a period of transition where we have made a lot of signings, who will all need time to gel and learn exactly what is is Frank wants from them. However, I feel a 3 at the back formation with this personnel not only has a bit of everything, but also has players who complement each other well in each position and may allow our players to flourish as a team. A team which I believe now, to be one of the strongest in the league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew3000 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I was wondering about this too and I like your reasoning about Lowe. Keogh settled down and became a catalyst for attacks when we did this too. Wisdom not the guy for the right hand side but may give him a chance as one if the back 3. I reckon we have better options to play it this year than last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Could be an option, we haven’t got the players to play the 4-3-3 that Frankie wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Worst thing we could do right now is abandon the philosophy we have been working on since the day Lampard arrived. Fortunately, I think Frank's smart enough to know that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 We need a system that enables us to get some control of the midfield. We didn't have that in either the Reading or Dirties game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyWanKenobi Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I think 2 games in is a bit soon to be abandoning plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimbo Ram said: We need a system that enables us to get some control of the midfield. We didn't have that in either the Reading or Dirties game.... It’s only a slight tweak though. Stick George, Butters or Hudds in there and let them control, forget the energetic side of the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, cannable said: It’s only a slight tweak though. Stick George, Butters or Hudds in there and let them control, forget the energetic side of the role. George ain't ready. Not sure if Hudders can play that role, I hope he can. If not give Evans a go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, cannable said: It’s only a slight tweak though. Stick George, Butters or Hudds in there and let them control, forget the energetic side of the role. Is there an argument to say that Evans could come in for Ledley, and Butterfield in for Bryson? Evans would do the defensive role like Matic for example, and Butterfield would off the passing range and the mobility to in the middle going forward and defending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: Is there an argument to say that Evans could come in for Ledley, and Butterfield in for Bryson? Evans would do the defensive role like Matic for example, and Butterfield would off the passing range and the mobility to in the middle going forward and defending. I don’t think Butterfield’s energetic enough to be an #8 to be honest. Although, it may work if you have Butters deep on the ball, Evans deep off of it. I say this without having seen Evans. For all we know he could be able to control a game himself and be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 We’ve just gone out and bought in players for a certain system and now you want to abandon it? nothing wrong with the formation or system. Just the wrong players picked for it/new players need to gel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadlad Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 On 12/08/2018 at 00:54, Ram of Steel said: I know it's early days and I'm not writing the 433 off but I feel we have been far too open in the first couple of games, with players being caught out of position in midfield and defence and making us vulnerable to teams hitting us on the break. As well as this I really feel as though we have the personnel in the squad now that could excel playing in a 3 at the back formation. The players took to it well at the end of last season and in my opinion, the new players have the attributes to slot into it well also. Not to mention that JM has had a lot of success with it in the Chelsea youth teams. Lampard appears to like to have attacking full backs and this formation would give them license to get forward without having to worry as much about their positioning defensively. This would benefit Max Lowe in particular who seems to be caught out of position most and to me, at times looks more of a winger anyway. We'd also still be able to play a high press, but it would leave less space at the back to be exploited should a team manage to beat it. With 3 at the back we could see a lineup similar to the following with the wing backs providing the width and Wilson and Lawrence operating slightly more centrally: Carson Wisdom/Keogh Davies Tomori Wisdom/Bogle Lowe/Malone Huddlestone Mount Wilson Lawrence Marriott/Waghorn Going with 1 CAM and having Marriott and Waghorn up top together could also be an option. I know the 433 may work better when we have players such as Davies, Malone and Huddlestone all in the starting XI and that we're in a period of transition where we have made a lot of signings, who will all need time to gel and learn exactly what is is Frank wants from them. However, I feel a 3 at the back formation with this personnel not only has a bit of everything, but also has players who complement each other well in each position and may allow our players to flourish as a team. A team which I believe now, to be one of the strongest in the league! I was going to post something similiar. The problem is that our full backs push up, centre backs split and the defensive midfield player goes awol leaving us very exposed. In the two games so far we could easily have conceded more goals through losing possession in our own half. three at the back could give us a little more security. Neither Lowe or Malone appear to be strong defensively but both are good going forward and a back three would help with this. Tomori looked very good after a hesitant start so I would go with:- Carson Tomori Davies Forsyth Wisdom/Bogle Malone/Lowe Huddlestone/Evans Bennett Mount Lawrence Waghorn/Marriott Worth a look against Oldham, maybe..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 We have a game tomorrow that could be worth trying something like this out in. Three at the back is certainly viable now we have Tomori. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadlad Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: No I like the well reasoned argument you put forward there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, chadlad said: I like the well reasoned argument you put forward there. I’ve made them in all the threads regarding changing formation after 2 games when we have had several personnel changes which will take time to enact. Changin dirmation now would be the stupidest thing Frank could do imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 What I would say is in the 2 games so far we have not got the best out of our main striker and 352 with Marriott and Waghorn might work with extra protection in mid and I’d go 3 from Keogh Tomori Davies and Malone at back I think Wisdom and Lowe have been poor in first two games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadlad Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: I’ve made them in all the threads regarding changing formation after 2 games when we have had several personnel changes which will take time to enact. Changin dirmation now would be the stupidest thing Frank could do imo Alternatively you could consider that if we continue in the same manner we will just concede too many goals. Reading could have scored 4 with better finishing, Leeds did score 4 and might have scored more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 On 12/08/2018 at 13:38, TobyWanKenobi said: I think 2 games in is a bit soon to be abandoning plans. Yes we should give it at least until a week on Tuesday ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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