MULTI-POLL: Returning loan players - do they have a future here?

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Actually it tells you more about your grasp on economics and his position of strength. He has a long contract on very high wages. 

As I said: "It tells you all you need to know about Derby and nothing about the player. " ?

Edit: If this was Sunderland and Rodwell would you be saying the same thing?

 

 

[Hathersage Ram]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

As I said: "It tells you all you need to know about Derby and nothing about the player. " ?

Edit: If this was Sunderland and Rodwell would you be saying the same thing?

 

 

But the evidence supports my opinion. Do you see a que forming to offer ££m I’m not blinkered by his past performance nor unappreciative of his talents. I just think you’re over valuing them. But that’s perfectly acceptable. We all have our own opinions. 

[archied]

20 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

When it comes to the point that we have to ship out, at a bargain basement price, a good player like Martin. It tells you all you need to know about Derby and nothing about the player.

Well I’m very open in my appreciation of Martin at his best with us but ther comes a point when you also have to look at things realistically 

martin failed to nail down a first team place under Pearson and was shipped out on loan ( ok it’s pearson)

he failed to nail down a regular first team place at Fulham ( when they had problems in that position)

he failed to nail down a first team place under rowett and again was shipped out on loan 

he has failed to nail down a first team starter spot at relegation flirting reading in a team that by all accounts suits his style of play 

his stock in terms of sale price is very low pretty much as it was before clough brought him to derby so what type of fee would you consider not being bargain basement Roy as there appears to be very few takers who value him as highly in terms of wages as Steve Mac and derby .

just as an aside take a look at vydras back heel to set wieman clear that should have resulted in a goal for us at villa ,,, if that had been Martin plenty on here would be cumming in their pants and telling us that’s why he is the best striker on the books even though he is not scoring goals ,,, vydra has been creating stuff all season too that others don’t see or just ignore ,if we had players with vyds type finishing around him he would have multiple assists too this season ,

i like Martin and rate his time with us under Mac but football is a harsh game where you have to produce or be moved on 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 hour ago, archied said:

Well I’m very open in my appreciation of Martin at his best with us but ther comes a point when you also have to look at things realistically 

martin failed to nail down a first team place under Pearson and was shipped out on loan ( ok it’s pearson)

he failed to nail down a regular first team place at Fulham ( when they had problems in that position)

he failed to nail down a first team place under rowett and again was shipped out on loan 

he has failed to nail down a first team starter spot at relegation flirting reading in a team that by all accounts suits his style of play 

his stock in terms of sale price is very low pretty much as it was before clough brought him to derby so what type of fee would you consider not being bargain basement Roy as there appears to be very few takers who value him as highly in terms of wages as Steve Mac and derby .

just as an aside take a look at vydras back heel to set wieman clear that should have resulted in a goal for us at villa ,,, if that had been Martin plenty on here would be cumming in their pants and telling us that’s why he is the best striker on the books even though he is not scoring goals ,,, vydra has been creating stuff all season too that others don’t see or just ignore ,if we had players with vyds type finishing around him he would have multiple assists too this season ,

i like Martin and rate his time with us under Mac but football is a harsh game where you have to produce or be moved on 

He wasn't scoring goals because he wasn't playing ...pretty much the story for every derby striker that isn't vydra....nuge,Lawrence etc have all struggled to find the net consistantly under rowett.

And despite scoring a couple lately,Jerome hasn't been prolific either.

Gary and Pearson's ways are very similar and absolutely do not suit our old flair players...Hughes,Hendrick,Thorne,bryson or Martin and they both struggled to utilise those players with their systems of play.

To be honest,unless Gary moves on after this season then it's best that Martin and Thorne join the others in leaving the the club.....I don't want to see our best players languishing on the bench again whilst I watch less talented players taking their places on the pitch.

 

[archied]

10 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

He wasn't scoring goals because he wasn't playing ...pretty much the story for every derby striker that isn't vydra....nuge,Lawrence etc have all struggled to find the net consistantly under rowett.

And despite scoring a couple lately,Jerome hasn't been prolific either.

Gary and Pearson's ways are very similar and absolutely do not suit our old flair players...Hughes,Hendrick,Thorne,bryson or Martin and they both struggled to utilise those players with their systems of play.

To be honest,unless Gary moves on after this season then it's best that Martin and Thorne join the others in leaving the the club.....I don't want to see our best players languishing on the bench again whilst I watch less talented players taking their places on the pitch.

 

My point is though that he appears to be pretty much a bench player at Fulham ,reading and a very poor Scotland ,, also I’m not saying that cam is better or nuge is better just that perhaps Martin is not the future for us either

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, archied said:

My point is though that he appears to be pretty much a bench player at Fulham ,reading and a very poor Scotland ,, also I’m not saying that cam is better or nuge is better just that perhaps Martin is not the future for us either

He became a bench player at Fulham when we rocked the boat asking for him back. He's on the bench at Reading because he doesn't want to be there. As for Scotland, well Strachan was playing him and was complimentary.

It's obvious that Martin is like Vydra, wants to belong and be loved. He's said all along 'family first' and a permanent contract is what matters. 

[BramcoteRam84]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

He became a bench player at Fulham when we rocked the boat asking for him back. He's on the bench at Reading because he doesn't want to be there. As for Scotland, well Strachan was playing him and was complimentary.

It's obvious that Martin is like Vydra, wants to belong and be loved. He's said all along 'family first' and a permanent contract is what matters. 

Look at his entire career. Settled at Norwich had a great record. Loaned from pillar to post he hardly scored a goal. Settled at Derby did even better than Norwich, out on Loan he struggled.

Even though he didn’t score many I thought he did a good job when used earlier in the season, however I do believe Rowett in Martin not happy being second fiddle and wanting to give him opportunity to get games elsewhere.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

He became a bench player at Fulham when we rocked the boat asking for him back. He's on the bench at Reading because he doesn't want to be there. As for Scotland, well Strachan was playing him and was complimentary.

It's obvious that Martin is like Vydra, wants to belong and be loved. He's said all along 'family first' and a permanent contract is what matters. 

I think this is on the money...most strikers are confidence players and need regular games and the managers strong support if they are to succeed and flourish.

Martin knew he would get that from mac and that's why he was desperate to get back to us once Mac was reappointed......

I'm still mystified as to why Martin and vydra as a pair wasn't explored by rowett,it would have been devastating and both are younger than nuge and jerome.

[archied]

8 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I think this is on the money...most strikers are confidence players and need regular games and the managers strong support if they are to succeed and flourish.

Martin knew he would get that from mac and that's why he was desperate to get back to us once Mac was reappointed......

I'm still mystified as to why Martin and vydra as a pair wasn't explored by rowett,it would have been devastating and both are younger than nuge and jerome.

Think we mostly are interested to see that ,,the only thing I would say is that rowett has them in training day in day out and I’m pretty sure if it was something that worked really well I’m sure rowett would have wanted them on the pitch scoring goals and winning games for him and derby ,, it’s easy for us fans to get protective over our fav players and think if managers don’t pick the it’s some kind of personal think like criticism of Martin on here can get when debate gets heated ,,,

i honestly think that rowett sees them as playing a similar position although in a different way to each other ,, for it to work well I think you would have to push vyds further up and playing off Martin and you perhaps lose something in terms of vydras work rate and pace closing defenders down ,,, 

just my view and it doesn’t mean I don’t rate Martin just trying to figure why rowett doesn’t see them working well as a partnership because as I say I don’t think rowett would nt  play them together if it worked really well in training and I think it’s a bit ott to really believe that rowett is totally clueless

[Ramchop]

9 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

 

I'm still mystified as to why Martin and vydra as a pair wasn't explored by rowett,it would have been devastating and both are younger than nuge and jerome.

How do you know it wasn't explored? They will have tried things in training.

So if you were Derby manager, what specific instructions would you give the 2 players? This isn't FIFA, you don't just sent 2 guys out and tell them to "try a few things". Footballers expect detailed instructions and drills. 

[IlsonDerby]

On 02/05/2018 at 15:17, EnigmaRam said:

What, someone voted to keep butterfield?! ?I just checked and 17 people did the ?'S

? Only clowns can’t see that he’s a technically gifted, two footed goal scoring midfielder... would have him in the side ahead of Johnson every day of the week. I appreciate talent over effort. 

[rynny]

On 02/05/2018 at 15:51, TommyPowel said:

 Isnt the fact that GR sent them out on loan kinda suggests he wants rid he might need to have the football equivalent of a fire sale

Well maybe that is why the question was what would you do? Not what you think will happen.

People are allowed a different opinion to the manager. He isn't above reproach. Should we all sit here nodding along with every decision? Nah you're alright thanks. I will question his decisions that I think are questionable, I will applaud him when he gets things right and criticise when he gets things wrong. At the end of the day that is what this forum is for, for people to put across their views and debate the good, the bad and @Boycie.

[Raminphilippines]

I would keep Martin for sure, before he went out on loan we were holding on to matches when he came on as sub. Martin holding up the ball when we had a 1 - 0 lead took the pressure of the defence also he has ability to defend which with Rowetts style of play helped a lot.  

Notice how after Martin went out on loan we stopped being able to hold on to so many games. 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 hours ago, Ramchop said:

How do you know it wasn't explored? They will have tried things in training.

So if you were Derby manager, what specific instructions would you give the 2 players? This isn't FIFA, you don't just sent 2 guys out and tell them to "try a few things". Footballers expect detailed instructions and drills. 

Forgive me for not having massive faith in a manager that wouldn't incorporate hughes,ince and Bryson into his team and fails to get Thorne working,never mind Martin.

[EnigmaRam]

11 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

? Only clowns can’t see that he’s a technically gifted, two footed NON-goal scoring midfielder... would have him in the side ahead of Johnson every day of the week. I appreciate talent over effort. 

FTFY

[IlsonDerby]

10 hours ago, EnigmaRam said:

FTFY

Yeah? Which midfielder has had a better goal scoring season for us since he arrived??