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How far short or not

archied

By archied
in Derby County Forum

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

Obviously hindsight, but Christie would've been perfect for the RWB role.

I have to disagree, perhaps unsurprisingly. He cannot kick a ball. a RWB with no kicking technique would be more frustrating than a Butterfield passing backwards. He would do 2/3 of the role amazingly, a bit like Wiemann now, but the end product, the most important bit, would be missing. He could never cross a ball higher then 18" off the ground.

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VulcanRam

VulcanRam

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Moist One said:

I have to disagree, perhaps unsurprisingly. He cannot kick a ball. a RWB with no kicking technique would be more frustrating than a Butterfield passing backwards. He would do 2/3 of the role amazingly, a bit like Wiemann now, but the end product, the most important bit, would be missing. He could never cross a ball higher then 18" off the ground.

I agree, if people are saying Wisdom lacks some quality in his delivery, they can't possibly want Christie in there. Wisdom also has the added ability of being able to defend. I think he's done well in the last 2 games.

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ViewsFromTheMiddle

ViewsFromTheMiddle

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I agree, if people are saying Wisdom lacks some quality in his delivery, they can't possibly want Christie in there. Wisdom also has the added ability of being able to defend. I think he's done well in the last 2 games.

I rate Wisdom too. Would try him as one of the 3 CB's though.

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Mostyn6

Mostyn6

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

What philosophy do you think suits?? 

Personally, I think we have players with sporadic levels of concentration and the ability to play one/two-touch pass and move. I think with our defence, and the midfield that shield them being unable to withhold sustained pressure, we should be as offensive as possible, maybe even gung-ho.

I can only refer back to what I have seen as recent success, and that takes me back to the first 6 months of Steve McClaren, and how that was a quantum leap from the majority of Nigel Clough's time.

I remember seeing Simmo, Rush, Vicars and co on a pub crawl thing, and I made a plea with Simmo, "please just play to win", that was the weekend after we clawed back from 0-3 to draw Ipswich 3-3. My stance was then, the same as now, we aren't composed enough to absorb an onslaught, so take it to them. That next weekend, we played Zola's attacking Watford side and won 3-2. It was positive intent all the way.

I believe the retain possession or defend and counter attack philosophies are not suited, whereas I reckon gung ho would be more successful than both of those.

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BottrillRAM

BottrillRAM

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said:

RWB, energetic CM, another 10 if Vydra leaves, younger version of Nuge/Jerome. 

If he is to continue 343.

wisdom keogh Davies 

RWB.                         Lowe/foz

huddlestone CM 

Lawrence    Vydra/new 

         New 

Personally I think Elsnik / Guy with Bryson as an experienced head would be enough for this position

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Comrade 86

Comrade 86

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, archied said:

Has rowett shown he can change and perhaps try to deliver the football fans want ?

Think he's said elsewhere that we're a few short of a playing roster that really suits 3 at the back but I think the two games where we've set up like this have been batter performances and easier on the eye too. The fact that he's switched to this system shows he'll make changes but some folk might think with good reason that this might have happened a month or two back. Better late than never though. The summer transfer window will doubtless shed further light on his approach for next season. WHatever league we're in, I hope we don't revert to a 4-4-2 as standard.

With that formation are we a striker , a good left wingback and a quality midfielder away from very decent? 

Promoted or not you'd have to think we'll be looking to strengthen. Mixed messages thus far as to what will be available if we're still in the Championship. Max Lowe could be a wildcard at LB, injuries notwithstanding and Perhaps Winnall at CF. If funds are limited and those two step forward then perhaps we can afford a decent attacking midfielder. Step forward Casey Palmer though Chelsea mates think that probably won't happen.

And with that in mind do we have really decent under 23 options to come in and cover if we play that system ? 

Lowe, Thomas, Elsnik, Bogle - I'd say we might do but given their lack of 1st team opportunites, who really knows? We never will if they're not given starts so I'm hoping we use them before we lose them. There are rumours of Thomas to West Ham and if he's allowed to go there'll be further questions about how useful the academy set up really is.

 If so with a bit of wheeling and dealing that should be very doable on our budget ?

Assuming we're still in the Championship, one or two signings would help us challenge for autos. The system we play and finding a greater level of consistency will be key though.

 

 

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Dethorn

Dethorn

Posted
Posted

I think a lot depends on whether Thorne and Forsyth can get back to somewhere near their pre - injury form in the preseason but apart from them I would be looking at it like this -

Definately keep

Carson, Wisdom, Davies,  Johnson, Vydra, Winnall

Probably Keep

Pierce, Lowe. Weimann, Lawrence, Huddlestone, Anya, Jerome, Hanson, Roos, Mitchell

Get rid

Keogh, Ledley, Olson, Nugent, Butterfield, Shackell, Baird

Welcome back

Bryson, Martin

 

Which give

GK's: Carson, Roos, Mitchell

Def's: Wisdom, Davies, Pierce, Forsyth, Lowe, Anya,

Mid's; Johnson, Huddlestone, Thorne, Bryson, Hanson,

AM's, #10's or wide: Vydra, Weimann, Lawrence,

CF's Winnal, Jerome, Martin

Which leaves us a defender or two and an attacking midfielder short of a good squad I think

Not sure whether we have the youth players for those but with a couple of signings or loans I think we should be there or thereabouts.

 

Personally I'd start

Carson

Wisdom, Davies, Pierce

Anya  Thorne  Johnson  Forsyth

Vydra Weiman

Martin

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Dordogne-Ram

Dordogne-Ram

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

I think a lot depends on whether Thorne and Forsyth can get back to somewhere near their pre - injury form in the preseason but apart from them I would be looking at it like this -

Definately keep

Carson, Wisdom, Davies,  Johnson, Vydra, Winnall

Probably Keep

Pierce, Lowe. Weimann, Lawrence, Huddlestone, Anya, Jerome, Hanson, Roos, Mitchell

Get rid

Keogh, Ledley, Olson, Nugent, Butterfield, Shackell, Baird

Welcome back

Bryson, Martin

 

Which give

GK's: Carson, Roos, Mitchell

Def's: Wisdom, Davies, Pierce, Forsyth, Lowe, Anya,

Mid's; Johnson, Huddlestone, Thorne, Bryson, Hanson,

AM's, #10's or wide: Vydra, Weimann, Lawrence,

CF's Winnal, Jerome, Martin

Which leaves us a defender or two and an attacking midfielder short of a good squad I think

Not sure whether we have the youth players for those but with a couple of signings or loans I think we should be there or thereabouts.

 

Personally I'd start

Carson

Wisdom, Davies, Pierce

Anya  Thorne  Johnson  Forsyth

Vydra Weiman

Martin

And Keogh?

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IlsonDerby

IlsonDerby

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, BottrillRAM said:

Personally I think Elsnik / Guy with Bryson as an experienced head would be enough for this position

All well and good if they’re ready then by all means get them in. Save us money. 

41 minutes ago, Dethorn said:

I think a lot depends on whether Thorne and Forsyth can get back to somewhere near their pre - injury form in the preseason but apart from them I would be looking at it like this -

Definately keep

Carson, Wisdom, Davies,  Johnson, Vydra, Winnall

Probably Keep

Pierce, Lowe. Weimann, Lawrence, Huddlestone, Anya, Jerome, Hanson, Roos, Mitchell

Get rid

Keogh, Ledley, Olson, Nugent, Butterfield, Shackell, Baird

Welcome back

Bryson, Martin

 

Which give

GK's: Carson, Roos, Mitchell

Def's: Wisdom, Davies, Pierce, Forsyth, Lowe, Anya,

Mid's; Johnson, Huddlestone, Thorne, Bryson, Hanson,

AM's, #10's or wide: Vydra, Weimann, Lawrence,

CF's Winnal, Jerome, Martin

Which leaves us a defender or two and an attacking midfielder short of a good squad I think

Not sure whether we have the youth players for those but with a couple of signings or loans I think we should be there or thereabouts.

 

Personally I'd start

Carson

Wisdom, Davies, Pierce

Anya  Thorne  Johnson  Forsyth

Vydra Weiman

Martin

Not nearly enough ball playing ability/ability to run through the first line in that back 3 to successfully play this system??? 

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Carnero

Carnero

Posted
Posted

Can't believe some people want to mess around with Keogh's position in the back, some playing him central, some playing him left side, some playing him not at all.

The right side of the 3 role is made for Keogh, allowing him to push forward at will knowing that THudd will cover and with the ability to overlap and cross the ball into the box using his stronger right foot.

Indeed Forsyth started doing the same 2nd half on the left, it's the same way that Sheff Utd have been playing all season - a lot of the width actually comes from the wide centre halves as much as our makeshift wing backs.

The correct balance in the current squad for a 3 is the one currently being picked - IE Keogh, Davies, Forsyth.

The only discussion should be whether Weimann replaces Olsson (or Wisdom) in a wing back role, but at present Wisdom has done a reasonable enough job in his role too.

Leave Keogh where he is!!!!!!!!

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