McRainy Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, David said: The Hoofball Myth 26 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Hoo-f'ing-rah! It was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Lambchop said: It was a joke. Apologies, missed the punchline after reading so much Rowett isn't McClaren over the last few hours. And it's still early. Ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I don’t understand or like the current mood of the fans turning on each other over everything. My responsibility when I go and watch Derby is to have the best day out possible and to enjoy spending time with my family. I don’t like all this negativity against Derby fans,last thing we need is for the fans to start fighting with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Just added the apostrophe into the title. Disappointed that I’m having to moderate the moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said: I don’t like all this negativity against Derby fans,last thing we need is for the fans to start fighting with each other. Says who? You and whose army?! Everyone has to take a turn at being blamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Says who? You and whose army?! Everyone has to take a turn at being blamed. I blame the people who leave early. If you’re on East Stand Upper E against Fulham me and Joel will either be leaving 5 minutes early or waiting till everyone’s left. Does anyone really give a ****? Just go and enjoy your day out...bloody hell,we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, David said: Apologies, missed the punchline after reading so much Rowett isn't McClaren over the last few hours. And it's still early. Ish. Interesting to see the stats anyway, although I’m not sure I understand them. If we are 20th in the list of misplaced long balls how can we only be 12th in list for accuracy? If they’re not misplaced then surely they’re accurate; or maybe there’s a third option where the wind kind of catches them a bit? Or am I just innumerate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 45 minutes ago, David said: The Hoofball Myth Inaccurate Long Balls 1st, Burton - 57.3 2nd, Barnsley - 53.3 3rd, Ipswich - 51 4th, Millwall - 50.1 5th, Preston - 49.9 ---------------------- 20th, Derby - 38.7 Accurate Long Balls 1st, Reading - 39.7 2nd, Bristol City - 36.8 3rd, Brentford - 36.1 4th, Wolves - 34.6 5th, Birmingham - 33.3 ---------------------- 12th, Derby - 29.6 How does that prove a myth? Not saying it doesn’t however in what context are these figures. For example if a team has less possession and therefore makes fewer passes is this taken into consideration or if the ball is passed along the back 100 times and then launched forward, how do the stats show this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 11 hours ago, AdamRam said: Having followed the rams for many a year both hone and away I beleive some have selective memory. Before SMs first season our following was very low in numbers, the support was as it is now, good when we are winning poor when not. This was the same for the years before, I remember going to Plymouth for a FA cup game that we lost and the atmosphere in ththe away end being vile. This is not something new, at Barnsley under Smith fans chanted to sack him, Stern John getting roundly booed, even games under the cox era our vocal and numbers weren’t great. Personally I have never booed (don’t get the noise for a start) abused a player, or anything like that and leave my views to in between games however would never be critical of those that are. I also don’t beleive that it has the detrimental effect in the players performance that some are alluding to, the difference however between the SM and this era is that for the former the players attacked from the off, they got the crowd involved, they attacked and they did it with high tempo football. If this team does the same, the crowd will get behind them, if they sit back the crowd will get nervous, they don’t feel involved and that for me is the difference. Spot on @AdamRam I for one am delighted we no longer sing "We pay your wages, play 4-4-2". None of what we're seeing now is new. Didn't go yesterday but am going to QPR so will be interesting to see everyone moaning when we only score 4, seeing as how Forest scored 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Lambchop said: Interesting to see the stats anyway, although I’m not sure I understand them. If we are 20th in the list of misplaced long balls how can we only be 12th in list for accuracy? If they’re not misplaced then surely they’re accurate; or maybe there’s a third option where the wind kind of catches them a bit? Or am I just innumerate? It's not percentages, it's balls per game. Comparing Reading as they are leading the accurate long ball table, they also play more long balls per game which is why they are able to play more accurate and lead the table.Inaccurate Per Game Reading 41.4 Derby - 38.7 Accurate Per Game Reading 39.7 Derby 29.6 You would expect the totals to be Reading - 81.1 Derby - 68.3 But in fact they display the total long balls as Long Balls Per Game Reading - 83 Derby - 69 My guess is that you are correct in that there is a third number which isn't shown, that would be long balls that go straight out of play are not noted as passes, but they are counted as long balls. Reading - 1.9 Derby - 0.7 Further stats on passing. Long Balls Per Game 21st, Derby - 69 22nd, Boro - 69 23rd, Norwich - 65 24th, Fulham - 60 Short Passes per game 1st, Fulham - 478 2nd, Norwich - 432 3rd, Wolves - 420 4th, Forest - 416 5th, Reading - 401 -------------------------- 10th, Derby - 348 Total Passes Per Game (Including crosses, through balls) 1st, Fulham - 532.6 2nd, Norwich - 491.1 3rd, Wolves - 484.8 4th, Forest - 483.1 5th, Reading - 476.6 -------------------------- 10th, Derby - 413.5 Heres the stat which whoscored.com doesn't show, percentage of long Balls to total balls played. (Includes crosses, through balls) The "Hoofball" Championship 17/18 Millwall 26% Cardiff 25.4% Bolton 24.9% Burton 24.8% Ipswich 24.3% Barnsley 23.2% Birmingham 21.8% QPR 21.4% Preston 20.7% Leeds 20.2% Sunderland 20.2% Bristol City 19.5% Hull 19% Sheff Wed 18.3% Sheff Utd 17.6% Reading 17.4% Boro 17.2% Villa 17% Derby 16.6% Brentford 16.4% Forest 15.1% Wolves 14.4% Norwich 13.2% Fulham 11.2% Derby Comparison to Previous Seasons 17/18 16.6% 16/17 16.0% 15/16 15.3% 14/15 14.4% 13/14 14.9% Summary Yes we are seeing more long balls per game than in previous seasons. No we are not a hoofball side. I'm off to watch songs of praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, David said: It's not percentages, it's balls per game. Comparing Reading as they are leading the accurate long ball table, they also play more long balls per game which is why they are able to play more accurate and lead the table. ... Summary Yes we are seeing more long balls per game than in previous seasons. No we are not a hoofball side. I'm off to watch songs of praise. I might have missed this, but how do the stats define a 'long ball'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I might have missed this, but how do the stats define a 'long ball'? Long Ball - An attempted/accurate pass of 25 yards or more https://www.whoscored.com/Glossary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Never mind mind that dynamo fella or David Blaine...Gary's the best illusionist in the world by making us believe it's hoofball when somehow it's not! That's a bloody amazing trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 22 minutes ago, David said: Heres the stat which whoscored.com doesn't show, percentage of long Balls to total balls played. This seems to me a more useful way of comparing our style to other teams, and to previous seasons. The factor that is missing, though, is the likelihood of retaining possession following the long ball. A long pass which leads to a subsequent passage of attacking play is less likely to seem like a hoof than if it comes pinging straight back at us. A hoof might then be defined as aimless, or hopeful at best, whilst a long pass is purposeful. Neither the stats on the accuracy of the original pass nor the ratio of long/short passes or long balls overall quite convey that information. To an extent it’s going to be a subjective impression based on each person’s reading of the game, which is why there are differing opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lambchop said: This seems to me a more useful way of comparing our style to other teams, and to previous seasons. The factor that is missing, though, is the likelihood of retaining possession following the long ball. A long pass which leads to a subsequent passage of attacking play is less likely to seem like a hoof than if it comes pinging straight back at us. A hoof might then be defined as aimless, or hopeful at best, whilst a long pass is purposeful. Neither the stats on the accuracy of the original pass nor the ratio of long/short passes or long balls overall quite convey that information. To an extent it’s going to be a subjective impression based on each person’s reading of the game, which is why there are differing opinions. I guess this all comes down to the individuals definition of "hoofball", when the ball is sent long at that point then it should be decided if it was a hoof or not regardless of what follows in my opinion. You can't be selective, it either is or not. You can question the effectiveness of that style of play, does it create openings, are we sending it long to be one ball away from losing possession, do we play for possession or chances on goal. This is where opinions will clash as it's football, so many different styles and tactics to enjoy, neither being right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, David said: when the ball is sent long at that point then it should be decided if it was a hoof or not regardless of what follows in my opinion. That’s a bit arbitrary for me, or at least, no less subjective than my interpretation. 13 minutes ago, David said: so many different styles and tactics to enjoy, neither being right or wrong. Agreed, and I’m not claiming we are hoof merchants, or trying to criticise Rowett’s style. I’m just not convinced that you can apply the stats to define it one way or the other, interesting though they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Never mind mind that dynamo fella or David Blaine...Gary's the best illusionist in the world by making us believe it's hoofball when somehow it's not! That's a bloody amazing trick. Guess he’ll never change what people want to see... anyone who isn’t looking through tinted glasses can see we haven’t been playing hoofball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Guess he’ll never change what people want to see... anyone who isn’t looking through tinted glasses can see we haven’t been playing hoofball Kick an' rush, init? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Kick an' rush, init? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector was the best Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 16 hours ago, utisbug said: If Cardiff lose tomorrow we're 4 points off automatic. It aint been great of late but folk need to get a grip. Above where anyone would've predicted at the beginning of the season. We've always been soft fans, and it clearly has a part to play in the results we see at this stage of the season. Folk need to get behind the team, like someone said earlier if it were Leeds there today the fans would probably have roared em to an easy win over a poor Reading side instead of imploding at 3-2 up. Cardiff 1 Bristol City 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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