A Tale of Two Teams (Derby & Brighton)

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

35 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

We're only 8 games into this season. New players in the squad like Huddlestone, Lawrence, Davies and Wisdom are all still settling into the side. Other players are dealing with a new lease of life such as Vydra and Nugent, and others are getting used to a whole new system to what they're used to, such as Martin and Bradley Johnson. Do you really expect a clear and succinct style to have emerged this quickly? These things take time, and quite often getting it wrong to get it right.

For what it's worth, there's probably a few on here who would argue that they can see a style emerging. Energetic strikers are a thing now. As is a danger man in the number 10 role. Wingers who stick to their lines more, rather than the constant cutting inside we're used to in a 4-3-3. There's also the new dynamic in the centre of the park. Clearly we're looking for the Fabregas/Matic dynamic that many would have seen under Mourinho's Chelsea. One who can open up the opposition with passing, next to a brute who can protect the playmaker and break up opposition play. I think part of the reason why this hasn't worked consistently so far is that we've had Johnson trying to do the Matic role, when he is a more attack-minded player. But that's probably an argument for another thread.

Again, I would reiterate my point in the original post. You say to can't see a style yet, or at least not one you want to watch. Well, how about just be patient and see if this changes? No harm in it at all. 

Having seen several of our home matches this season and watched intently...I can honestly say that I can see no discernable pattern of play,in fact it's got worse.

The pre season games seemed to be developing into something like,but any cohesion has just disappeared since then.

Perhaps tonight will see something of a recognizable style returning.

 

[sage]

1 minute ago, i-Ram said:

I think what Nuwtfly is saying in a roundabout way is that Brighton folk are a calm, patient, understanding people whereas Derby folk are generally a mardy, cantankerous, rabble-rousing bunch. I see his point.

Don't f**king call us cantankerous ya southern barsteward we are as calm as f**k. 

[metalsheep02]

8 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Mate great post

incidently i watched brighton the other day against newcastle.

i was that impressed with the likes of bruno, dunk and stephens that i started to write a similarly themed post on here til my little one started playing up and i lost my trail of thought

what impressed, inspired and just made me think good for them.

was that theres was a fair portion of that 11 that were very much part of the side that got so well and truly beaten by us in that playoff semi final.

they could have had a massive player cull But they stuck by many of that squad 

bravo them

As a side note.

fricking love bruno, has been my favourite champ right back for the last 4 years, class act, so composed on the ball,  so to see him look like a fish in water in the prem is just nice to see, good luck to them

the virtues of patience,

please bare in mind people.... im going to empahsise this pre brentford and cardiff cos i aint confident

 

With you on Bruno. First time I saw him play at Pride Park I thought he was an utter liability (no idea what year that was but certainly in or before play off season). Since then he has been an absolute rock for them and his passing is immense. I think he is something like 36 as well - not bad a for an attacking full back.

He covers CB as well if they have injuries.

[G STAR RAM]

I had a really long post in my head but I guess on the whole it would be repeating a lot of what has been  said before.

In summary I am more than happy for Rowett to be given time, however, for this to happen he needs to make sure he gets the fans on his side.

Other than sign Lawrence, I think virtually every thing he has done so far has had completely the opposite effect and he has already used up the goodwill an ex player has when coming into manage a former club.

I also think some sort of word out of the club would be an idea.

At this moment in time we still have fans, rightfully, asking what has happened to the Derby Way.

If that has been abandoned then it's not right for GR to completely carry the can for that.

At the moment I have no idea what I am supposed to be judging Rowett on other than what I see on the pitch and his own statement that we were aiming for top 2.

[Nuwtfly]

1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Having seen several of our home matches this season and watched intently...I can honestly say that I can see no discernable pattern of play,in fact it's got worse.

The pre season games seemed to be developing into something like,but any cohesion has just disappeared since then.

Perhaps tonight will see something of a recognizable style returning.

 

This is not a fair barometer by which to judge a team. It really isn't. 

[NottsRam77]

4 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said:

With you on Bruno. First time I saw him play at Pride Park I thought he was an utter liability (no idea what year that was but certainly in or before play off season). Since then he has been an absolute rock for them and his passing is immense. I think he is something like 36 as well - not bad a for an attacking full back.

He covers CB as well if they have injuries.

Absolutely.

was it last season they started the seaaon with a bit of defenses crisis and he deputitsed against us at home at cb.

dont think bent got a sniff all afternoon.

class act

[sage]

5 minutes ago, metalsheep02 said:

With you on Bruno. First time I saw him play at Pride Park I thought he was an utter liability (no idea what year that was but certainly in or before play off season). Since then he has been an absolute rock for them and his passing is immense. I think he is something like 36 as well - not bad a for an attacking full back.

He covers CB as well if they have injuries.

I remember someone commenting on him when he marked Jamie Ward in a game and saying he was crap.

I thought he was great that day and had Ward in his pocket.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 minute ago, Nuwtfly said:

This is not a fair barometer by which to judge a team. It really isn't. 

I don't see why not,although to be fair you need to add in results for a full picture.

How is not appearing to have any cohesion or understanding on the pitch not an accurate barometer of a team,it's not as though Gary hasn't had a lot of games to stamp his style on a team

I'm confused by what Gary says he wants on the pitch compared to what I'm seeing actually happen.

We should,by now, be able to see a plan developing out there,shouldn't we?

 

 

[Dimmu]

Damn @Nuwtfly  that's a hell of an effort just not to get facts right!

It wasn't Garcia's mess Hughton inherited, it was Hyypiä's. Garcia did well, guided them to playoffs just to lose us. Hyypiä managed to destroy that good team instantly and Hughton really needed to rebuild.

Otherwise, thumbs up!

[Mafiabob]

26 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't see why not,although to be fair you need to add in results for a full picture.

How is not appearing to have any cohesion or understanding on the pitch not an accurate barometer of a team,it's not as though Gary hasn't had a lot of games to stamp his style on a team

I'm confused by what Gary says he wants on the pitch compared to what I'm seeing actually happen.

We should,by now, be able to see a plan developing out there,shouldn't we?

 

 

That's the point...... he needs time to let one develop, let's hope Morris gives him the time. Judging on previous, it don't look good..... but with all the chopping and changing nothing has got developed, another change would take us back another season..... vicious circle if we got rid yet again. 

Happy with a transition season, as long as Gary gets time.

Over to you Morris.

 

[r4derby]

This Derby side has potential, but will inevitably draw the ire of fans with lacklustre performances (as seen against Brum), or just getting out played and classed by other teams who we feel we should be above (Bristol City/Sheff Utd) 

The key is for us fans to be able to safely dissect and moan about the team without it spilling over onto the pitch or into the ears of powerful decision makers at the club. 

Some fans are unable to notice the differences, and ultimately start spreading this whingey, negative rhetoric that has started to cover the club in a dark cloud. 

Thanks @Nuwtfly and others who try and put things into perspective once in a while.

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, r4derby said:

Some fans are unable to notice the differences, and ultimately start spreading this whingey, negative rhetoric that has started to cover the club in a dark cloud. 

Lol. Nothing at all to do with what is happening on and off the field since the arrival of Rowett?

[superfit]

I noticed tonights team must be one of the oldest in the league? Potential ?

 

 

 

  

[Rev]

Brilliant OP, fully agree with the sentiment. 

Let's be patient, and give Brighton time to panic, and bring Hughton in when they get rid.

[The Key Club King]

"I think we need to follow the stable model provided by insert name of medium sized team currently doing well. This team has shown a considered and sustainable approach to improvement by sticking with insert name of manager who replaced the previous manager who was in charge for 37 days before losing three consecutive games and getting fired through thick and thin."

 

Or alternatively, hire a manager, give them a healthy budget and the ability to do as they please within that. If they are rubbish, replace them with someone else until it works. And it will work. Eventually.

If a manager is any good they will likely make a success of it.

At some point Hull, Cardiff, Fulham, Villa, Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Reading, Sunderland etc. were all considered to be well ran clubs during their more successful periods. Their success is much more likely to be attributed to either a good manager or the stars all aligning in their favour.

Contrary to popular belief, most clubs are aware of this and this explains the high turnover of managers.

Swansea, Leicester, West Brom, Stoke, Bournemouth, Southampton, and Burnley are all thought to be considered good models for  clubs at the minute. They will all fail at some point and then probably be thought to have strayed from the principles that got them success in the first place. It's much more likely their manager messed it up.

 

[WamRam]

13 hours ago, KBB said:

That's not a rant. That's a well reasoned, knowledge post.

Patience is key. Amazing to think that clough rightly got time and patience from fans, mine did run out in the end, but certainly not after 12 games or even 2 seasons.

Eventually we have to dig in, put the shutters up and bring the club and fans together. We can't expect everything in one season. Time is key.

So much knowledge he forgot CH took over from Sami Hyypia

[r4derby]

11 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. Nothing at all to do with what is happening on and off the field since the arrival of Rowett?

It’s been happening since before Rowett. We have an impatient fan base, that hasn’t been helped by high manager turnover/increase in spending on transfers etc. Football may be changing, but it saddens me that as a club we’ve become very ‘short term’, both in the board room and on the terraces

[metalsheep02]

I fear we are in the Sami Hypia phase (again).