Reasons to be cautious 1,2,3

[sage]

It would seem after the Preston game that certain new 'facts" are apparent. 4231 is the future, Martin, Russell, Bryson and Forsyth are history and Vydra, Nugent and Weimann will lead us to the promised land. Obviously the evidence for this has been gathered for over 90 minutes so who am I to argue. However I will add some cautionary notes.

1. Preston were awful and gifted us several opportunities throughout the game. They had several players missing and we only won as a result of a penalty. It is difficult to assess the scale of improvement from the Wolves game when there is such a massive difference in quality and performance from the opposition teams. Rosetta himself said himself he made changes specifically for this game.

2. Much has been made of Vydra's performance in the number 10 role as if it was a season defining moment. It wasn't. Whilst he was lively and linked well with Nugent and Weimann, the second striker part of his job, he struggled with the advanced midfielder part of his role, giving the ball away in dangerous positions 3 times in the first half, where a better team would probably have punished us. I would also add that due to injury and suspension Preston had a midfield 3 of two attacking midfielders and a converted striker. No one with defensive qualities.

3. We are stilll lacking someone to play alongside Huddlestone in a midfield 2. Johnson gives the ball away too much to play there. The lack of pace in front of the back four was exposed when they brought Maguire on late in the game. Wolves exploited this when we went to a midfield 2 on Saturday and other teams will do the same.

 

Now I hope we can continue to improve but I still think we have a long way to go to be anything other than a upper midtable team this season. 

 

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

7 minutes ago, sage said:

It would seem after the Preston game that certain new 'facts" are apparent. 4231 is the future, Martin, Russell, Bryson and Forsyth are history and Vydra, Nugent and Weimann will lead us to the promised land. Obviously the evidence for this has been gathered for over 90 minutes so who am I to argue. However I will add some cautionary notes.

1. Preston were awful and gifted us several opportunities throughout the game. They had several players missing and we only won as a result of a penalty. It is difficult to assess the scale of improvement from the Wolves game when there is such a massive difference in quality and performance from the opposition teams. Rosetta himself said himself he made changes specifically for this game.

2. Much has been made of Vydra's performance in the number 10 role as if it was a season defining moment. It wasn't. Whilst he was lively and linked well with Nugent and Weimann, the second striker part of his job, he struggled with the advanced midfielder part of his role, giving the ball away in dangerous positions 3 times in the first half, where a better team would probably have punished us. I would also add that due to injury and suspension Preston had a midfield 3 of two attacking midfielders and a converted striker. No one with defensive qualities.

3. We are stilll lacking someone to play alongside Huddlestone in a midfield 2. Johnson gives the ball away too much to play there. The lack of pace in front of the back four was exposed when they brought Maguire on late in the game. Wolves exploited this when we went to a midfield 2 on Saturday and other teams will do the same.

 

Now I hope we can continue to improve but I still think we have a long way to go to be anything other than a upper midtable team this season. 

 

 

So what would you advocate?

[sage]

Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

So what would you advocate?

I would advocate not reading a whole season in 90 minutes.

I would advocate that Vydra needs to improve that side of is game to play there against better teams, especially away.

I would advocate buying or loaning a CM with pace who could play in a 2 with Huddlestone. 

I would advocate being able to play more than one system and picking a side for the occasion rather than an ideology.

Finally I would advocate we weren't getting relegated on Saturday and we weren't getting promoted on Tuesday.

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

Russell should've been history after Burton away last year.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

Spot on sage,

Cautious isn't the word.....we are fragile at the moment and one heart beat away from drawing yet another game on Tuesday.....if we had,this crazy surge of optimism would be seen to be as ridiculous as the wave of negatively after losing to wolves...the truth is in the middle surely.

We still don't have a settled team or system and our general play lacks verve, imagination and confidence .....its a far cry from the seamless flow and confidence the 2013/14 team that inspired many of us for sure...and we really should be doing and looking more integrated after 12 league games.

Hopefully Lawrence and some more arrivals might bring the confidence in and reinvigorate our attacking options......

 

 

 

[needles]

2 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

Russell should've been history after Burton away last year.

Relevance? Silly, by the way, as the whole team was godawful that game, but relevance?

[sage]

1 minute ago, needles said:

Relevance? Silly, by the way, as the whole team was godawful that game, but relevance?

Agenda doesn't need relevance. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

6 minutes ago, sage said:

I would advocate not reading a whole season in 90 minutes.

I would advocate that Vydra needs to improve that side of is game to play there against better teams, especially away.

I would advocate buying or loaning a CM with pace who could play in a 2 with Huddlestone. 

I would advocate being able to play more than one system and picking a side for the occasion rather than an ideology.

Finally I would advocate we weren't getting relegated on Saturday and we weren't getting promoted on Tuesday.

First point: Valid.

Second point: How?

Third point: Who?

Fourth point: Rowett agrees with you and does.

Fifth point: Valid.

[needles]

1 minute ago, sage said:

Agenda doesn't need relevance. 

I agree. Also, I think Richard Keogh is ace.

[ViewsFromTheMiddle]

2 minutes ago, needles said:

Relevance? Silly, by the way, as the whole team was godawful that game, but relevance?

Relevant to the first paragraph. It's nothing new that he's not good enough to be a regular, can't remember the last time he played well.

[sage]

Just now, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

First point: Valid.

Second point: How?

Third point: Who?

Fourth point: Rowett agrees with you and does.

Fifth point: Valid.

How? How you use the ball in possession is a balance of safety and risk. Defenders are more safety orientated as losing possession could be costly. Vydra will need to learn to retain possession when he drops deeper. 

Who? Lewis Cook? I don't know play FIFA so I don't have a long list. Thorns and Huddlestone would be amazing combination in some ways but a pact little ACM would give them a world of problems. 

 

 

 

[needles]

 

2 minutes ago, ViewsFromTheMiddle said:

Relevant to the first paragraph. It's nothing new that he's not good enough to be a regular, can't remember the last time he played well.

I see. You're entitled to your opinion. Odd to pick that as the sole response to Sage's broad and well considered post.

[1of4]

On Tuesday night Wisdom, Weimann and Huddlestone all over hit passes into box but still got a round of applause for their attempt. When Russell did the same, he got boos. Why the difference in the crowds reactions?

[sage]

1 minute ago, 1of4 said:

On Tuesday night Wisdom, Weimann and Huddlestone all over hit passes into box but still got a round of applause for their attempt. When Russell did the same, he got boos. Why the difference in the crowds reactions?

Bullying? Mob mentality? Schadenfreude?

[Ambitious]

The emphasis for me is definitely on how we can engineer more opportunities in the final third, which we are quite poor at, and how we shift the ball from midfield to attack. The defence is absolutely sound, for me, it has good depth and quality. We also defend well as a team, even in the attacking positions. 

I think more movement in the final third is the key to this, which Vydra helps. I don't actually believe Vydra is technically a fantastic footballer, which is why when his confidence is low and it's not 'happening' for him, he struggles. He is, however, a very busy player and his movement allows space for other players. It's going to take some time to find the balance in the final third, but if we can focus on the above then I actually think we will be okay. 

I still wouldn't mind seeing a RM & CM come through the door, however.

[BramcoteRam84]

Thought there was much better balance with the 4-2-3-1. Don't think Preston were bad at all and it was a game where we had to be patient. Definitely think this system is the way forward.

Weimann had one of his best games for the Rams. Needs to back it up. Vydra did ok, think he will thrive in that role but just needs more game time.Johnson was solid and Huddlestone had a 30 minute spell where he was unbelievable either side of half time. Defence looked good with exception of Davies who is still finding his feet, Olsson also deserves a special mention, thought he had a decent game.

Russell is dreadfully low on confidence at the moment. Don't know why and don't know how long we'll persevere. Think Bolton will be his last chance for now before Lawrence comes in.

Yes there is work to do but for me there is signs that as we play more games and become more cohesive, there is a basis for a competitive team in this league.

And are Russell, Martin and Bryson finished? Absolutely not!!

[DesertRam]

I thought Forsyth was not match fit, other than that, and giving him a rest, don't

think he has any reason to worry long term!

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

3 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

 

Russell is dreadfully low on confidence at the moment. Don't know why and don't know how long we'll persevere. Think Bolton will be his last chance for now before Lawrence comes in.

For an unconfident man, he hit a rasping drive from 30 yards, from where I was sat I thought it was nestling in! 

To be honest I don't think to start at Bolton, I think GR will put Lawrence straight in in place of JR, he's been chasing this guy all summer. Tuesday was effectively a battle between Weimann and Russell to see who keeps their place now Lawrence has signed. Andi won the battle on the night IMO but as we've seen before he has a tendency to follow up a good performance with a bad one.

[Tamworthram]

8 hours ago, sage said:

It would seem after the Preston game that certain new 'facts" are apparent. 4231 is the future, Martin, Russell, Bryson and Forsyth are history and Vydra, Nugent and Weimann will lead us to the promised land. Obviously the evidence for this has been gathered for over 90 minutes so who am I to argue. However I will add some cautionary notes.

1. Preston were awful and gifted us several opportunities throughout the game. They had several players missing and we only won as a result of a penalty. It is difficult to assess the scale of improvement from the Wolves game when there is such a massive difference in quality and performance from the opposition teams. Rosetta himself said himself he made changes specifically for this game.

2. Much has been made of Vydra's performance in the number 10 role as if it was a season defining moment. It wasn't. Whilst he was lively and linked well with Nugent and Weimann, the second striker part of his job, he struggled with the advanced midfielder part of his role, giving the ball away in dangerous positions 3 times in the first half, where a better team would probably have punished us. I would also add that due to injury and suspension Preston had a midfield 3 of two attacking midfielders and a converted striker. No one with defensive qualities.

3. We are stilll lacking someone to play alongside Huddlestone in a midfield 2. Johnson gives the ball away too much to play there. The lack of pace in front of the back four was exposed when they brought Maguire on late in the game. Wolves exploited this when we went to a midfield 2 on Saturday and other teams will do the same.

 

Now I hope we can continue to improve but I still think we have a long way to go to be anything other than a upper midtable team this season. 

 

 

I think the overwhelming majority of us are not getting carried away just happy and encouraged to have seen a much improved performance regardless of the opposition 

[Ninos]

I liked reading @sage post but I don't see the point of it. No one is super optimistic quite yet anyway. We got fortunate at sunderland, got outthought out played and basically squashed at home by Wolves and we squeezed by a poor Preston side albeit on the back of a powerhouse defence. 

Thorne fills in the cdm #2 role and if we play Vydra in front of them, maybe even Elsnik there as his backup then Bryson Butterfield and Johnson become surplus. Lawrence slots in on one wing and Rowett has to find the form winger from Anya Russell and Weimann. Then all that's left is having Nugent/martin fill the striker role until Zanzala Jacobsen or the striker that Rowett really wants there, comes. 

For now we are fine, and assuming he doesn't start chopping and changing players and formations we will do just fine because we are very hard to beat.