Vydra and Nugent

[MackworthRamIsGod]

These two were starting to form a good partnership last season and for some reason Rowett stopped playing Vydra. It was very bizarre at the time.

When they came on last night we looked different, Vydra runs at the defense and Nugent stays on his feet at least.

Surely an idiot can work out these two need to be on the pitch together from the start?

I also thought Nugent and Martin looked good together in our first friendly game.

Martin on his own upfront has had its day.

[Sparkle]

Vydra has been unfit in pre season but I do agree with Vydra being on the pitch with Martin or nugent or a mix of all three of them

they will be fit, the thing is that we need to sort out the midfield to link up or pass it in there

[kyle mccabe]

Totally agree pal I have been banging on about this for ages .. Martin has one way of playing and that's to feet he can never go beyond the centre half. As for Russell he has not performed consistently for us for years

[Alph]

Done my fair share of Vydra bashing but the one major issue I take against Rowett was I thought he stumbled along something last season and that system did seem to include 2 DMs and Vydra. Then he abandoned it. For the first time since he signed I feel for Vydra because the one and only time he's earned his place he gets dropped. 

12 minutes ago, kyle mccabe said:

Totally agree pal I have been banging on about this for ages .. Martin has one way of playing and that's to feet he can never go beyond the centre half. As for Russell he has not performed consistently for us for years

It's a very simplistic way of looking at it. Firstly Martin has got behind the back 4 for 1v1 in his last 2 games. 

What you mean is you can't hit the ball over the top and pray he makes something of nothing. No you can't. There's a lot of great players out there that would also refuse to chase lazy punts.

What is the point of him playing on the shoulder of the last man when the rest of the team sit so deep? How can they find him? That's what Darren Bent does. Looks no better does it? 

Martin is a lone striker. Lone strikers tend to spend time dropping in to give the team a foothold. Even last night he provided all kinds of lay offs. What happened after the lay off was mostly rushed nonsense. 

Vydra can go beyond the center half. And when he's played up front on his own in 433 he's looked about as threatening as a pug with no teeth. 

You're basically asking Martin to prey on service that doesn't exist. 

The best chance Martin had, the one where he's all alone with defenders all at sea came because there was an actual driving force coming forward without Martin having to drop in and drag the team unwillingly to attack. 

In an attacking sense we have become more and more placid since Wembley. Clement accelerated the process to one of the most boring teams in the league. 

I'd say Russell is consistent too. You know the level of service you will get from him. Whether that's good enough or not is another matter. But what he was doing last night was the same stuff he was doing years ago when everyone cheered him running the ball out of play and getting caught flat footed.

He's just a decent Champ striker. There has never been any great promise there. But if he had more to work with and aim at then you'd get more end product.

If you ask 100 fit girls out on a night out you're chances of pulling are better than if you ask none. 

We need to get Johnny in the nightclub rather than hanging around the entrance

[nottingram]

Russell, Vydra and A.N.Other behind a striker looks really promising.

I saw our team yesterday and almost lost my motivation to even watch it. No link between the midfield and attack, no one breaking the lines. Seemed a really passive team. Vydra comes on and we look 1000000x more threatening, as we actually tried to scare them and panic them.

Hopefully Rowett will see that Vydra deserves a starting place more often than not

[Mistaram]

Nottingham your right about Vydra we need to get him in somewhere But Russell no not for me his decision making is horrendous 

[Ninos]

59 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Russell, Vydra and A.N.Other behind a striker looks really promising.

I saw our team yesterday and almost lost my motivation to even watch it. No link between the midfield and attack, no one breaking the lines. Seemed a really passive team. Vydra comes on and we look 1000000x more threatening, as we actually tried to scare them and panic them.

Hopefully Rowett will see that Vydra deserves a starting place more often than not

Judging from his post match comments he saw it clearly. 

[Alex W]

Martin and Vydra for me. As it always should have been. Martin couldn't have looked good yesterday yet still did, minus the sitter. The service he had to deal with was atrocious. 

[Sparkle]

Martin and Vydra for me, and you could even fit nugent in there as well

[Doodle]

4 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Martin and Vydra for me, and you could even fit nugent in there as well

At home to the weaker sides who are just going to sit back, I would have all 3 on. Probably have to go 3 at the back to balance it but against sides who will just leave one up top this shouldn't be a problem. 

[t'oldu]

GR actually voiced the possibility of Martin coming off the bench !!   I think he dropped Vydra last season because he was trying out all sorts of permutations rather than wanting to establish a permanent side.   Once he had seen the value of Vydra he moved on to other  things. He said then that he had watched all Vydra's goals on video to see  how he functioned best. He has just said he wants to work out how to get the very best out of him.  This looks as though it is in combination with Nugent.     

Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough but to me Martin was like the invisible man last night until he found himself in a fantastic position in front of goal. Then he did what he did for the penalty....leant back and booted it over the bar.   Did the system isolate him or did the players??

[DCFC1388]

On Vydra and Nugent last season yes we got them to a point where they were looking good and then Rowett seemingly dropped Vydra but my take on it was that Rowett saw what they could offer and how they worked together, the season was done with so he would try other things out and look at other players ready for this season. Had Vydra been fit I think he would have started on Friday. He will work well off either Martin or Nugent. 

I think away from home Martin will start so we have that physical presence for the majority of the game then have the energy of Nugent from the bench to run tired defences ragged for the last 20 of games.

[RiddingsRam]

I have mentioned in previous threads how much I rate Vydra , I just think he's a class above a lot of our forward players. Instead of trying to fit him in he's the type of player we need to build around and play to his strengths. Watch him go in a settled team with some confidence behind him. 

[RamLad1884]

Switch to a 4-2-3-1 next game and I reckon it'll work wonders. Martin behind Nugent with Vydra and Weimann as the widemen. That system plays to all of their strengths, allows Martin to drop back and means that the defense will have some very decent support in front of them with Bradders and Hudds. 

Aye, a man can just dream can't he?

[RiddingsRam]

35 minutes ago, RamLad1884 said:

Switch to a 4-2-3-1 next game and I reckon it'll work wonders. Martin behind Nugent with Vydra and Weimann as the widemen. That system plays to all of their strengths, allows Martin to drop back and means that the defense will have some very decent support in front of them with Bradders and Hudds. 

Aye, a man can just dream can't he?

Vydra s wasted out wide and Weimann is not good enough . I agree with the 4 2 3 1 though play vydra behind Martin and Russell and Bennett out wide.

[Ninos]

2 hours ago, t'oldu said:

GR actually voiced the possibility of Martin coming off the bench !!   I think he dropped Vydra last season because he was trying out all sorts of permutations rather than wanting to establish a permanent side.   Once he had seen the value of Vydra he moved on to other  things. He said then that he had watched all Vydra's goals on video to see  how he functioned best. He has just said he wants to work out how to get the very best out of him.  This looks as though it is in combination with Nugent.     

Maybe I wasn't watching carefully enough but to me Martin was like the invisible man last night until he found himself in a fantastic position in front of goal. Then he did what he did for the penalty....leant back and booted it over the bar.   Did the system isolate him or did the players??

Exactly. He did mention that and also that he almost started Vydra plus Nugent. None of the 3 players are Rowetts  men are they? I think that he favours martin in a 4-3-3 and Nugent Vydra in a 4-2-3-1. Even Martin's lovers on here admit he was ineffective In the way we played the 4-3-3, so I could be wrong but it's hard to believe that had we started 4-2-3-1 that Vydra and Nugent would have not run riot over Sunderland. If we play with Martin we need to build a whole team around Martin.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

3 hours ago, Ninos said:

Exactly. He did mention that and also that he almost started Vydra plus Nugent. None of the 3 players are Rowetts  men are they? I think that he favours martin in a 4-3-3 and Nugent Vydra in a 4-2-3-1. Even Martin's lovers on here admit he was ineffective In the way we played the 4-3-3, so I could be wrong but it's hard to believe that had we started 4-2-3-1 that Vydra and Nugent would have not run riot over Sunderland. If we play with Martin we need to build a whole team around Martin.

Vydra with Martin would be more effective than Nugent in my opinion....I like nugent a lot but vydra will benefit most from Martins lay off play.....Nugent doesn't do that anywhere near as effectively.

Vydra himself stated he has was looking forwards to playing Martin prior to him being shipped off to Fulham by the loon Pearson(another delusioned one who didn't rate Martin and look where that got us)

I really think that vydra can feed off him in a similar way to when bryson did back in 2013/14.....I expect a good 10 to 12 goals from vydra this season to add to Martin's 20.

[Ninos]

40 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

Vydra with Martin would be more effective than Nugent in my opinion....I like nugent a lot but vydra will benefit most from Martins lay off play.....Nugent doesn't do that anywhere near as effectively.

Vydra himself stated he has was looking forwards to playing Martin prior to him being shipped off to Fulham by the loon Pearson(another delusioned one who didn't rate Martin and look where that got us)

I really think that vydra can feed off him in a similar way to when bryson did back in 2013/14.....I expect a good 10 to 12 goals from vydra this season to add to Martin's 20.

I hear you and you could be right but Nugent is an utter menace and a pain in the rear of defenders with his energy. If Nugent and Vydra sit again after we couldn't finish for toffee this weekend and they offered so much energy, then that's two disgruntled forwards to add to the pile.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 minute ago, Ninos said:

I hear you and you could be right but Nugent is an utter menace and a pain in the rear of defenders with his energy. If Nugent and Vydra sit again after we couldn't finish for toffee this weekend and they offered so much energy, then that's two disgruntled forwards to add to the pile.

I think they both knew that they would be second choice initially...you can't blame GR forward going for the most prolific striker....

Both can play a part though....vydra definitely alongside Martin and Nugent as a high energy substitute or simply to be utilised when the opposition suits....it shouldn't be written in stone that any of the strikers start...surely that's the point of having a squad.

 

[Comrade 86]

I don't think it's necessarily either or - any combo of Martin, Vydra and Nuge (assuming any / all are in half decent form) can create a fair bit of havoc. I've long suggested that Matej would come good and I really hope he goes on to show the kind of form he did a couple of years back.

It'll be really interesting to see whether GR can get these lads firing. If he does, the play-offs could be a formality as I'd wager our defence will be tough with the new signings and George and Hudds sat in front of the back four. As for yesterday, folk were, IMO, unnecessarily down about the performance.

There were some pretty positive signs there amidst an admittedly mediocre run out. Unlike last year, for instance, it was us finishing the game strongly rather than sitting deeper and deeper, panicking and inviting trouble. Not a particularly popular line of thought, I admit, but for me, Keogh was the best player on the pitch.