Official: Will Hughes joins Watford

[Duracell]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Not calling you out on it, see you as a sensible poster and interested in your opinion.

BJ scored 15 goals and was instrumental in Norwich promotion season but you see £6m as a big overpayment. 

On that basis,  I find it hard to value Hughes at £6m.

The only thing Watford are paying for is potential and based on the last 2 seasons, he has not shown much promise of living up to the potential he had showed in the previous 3 to 4 seasons. 

I really rate Hughes by the way but don't struggle to see how his valuation has been arrived at.

I think the only thing we really had going in our favour was his new contract.

No idea why, but the money men in football are like excitable children with short-term memories. Completely agree that Hughes is largely just potential and hasn't proven anything, but equally, just watching the two players and it's clear that one has streets more ability than the other. And one is in his peak, the other isn't.

I haven't forgotten Johnson's excellent season, but even if he scored 32 goals, performed the Heimlich Manoeuvre on a choking Camilla the Canary and adopted an orphan, he still wouldn't be worth £6m. You're buying the player, plus the hype from the season before. I'd go so far as to argue that a Championship player is NEVER worth over £5m when they're over 24, let alone one who hadn't shown consistent success.

It's like Hendrick, really he's not a £10m player at all, and Burnley paid way over the odds for him. A few decent games at the Euros and the fact we could hold out a little longer for a higher fee results in that value.

Seen many players signed for high fees at this level after building a reputation for 1-2 seasons, but it's not that often that they make the difference to the side they join.

[ramblur]

Just to add to my last post,in case anyone doubts what I've said about amortisation changes, the 15/16 a/cs show total additions (intangible assets)  of £29.955m,yet the total amortisation charge for the year was £3.37m. I don't think we were handing out 9 year contracts.

[Cool As Custard]

How do you know Owen hasn't been given that spin to publish by the club?

As I said no one will ever know the truth but it's a conspiracy theory certainly worth considering!

[BobbyD]

8 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Ha ha. For me the bargain basement price suggests we don't think he's anything comparable to the player he was and could have become. And I presume that's a result of the cruciate injury. And it may well be true.

But the unseemly haste to get rid while a lot of clubs will be semi-closed for their brief summer holidays before everything begins to ramp up for pre-season (still about 10 days away for most Premier League clubs) is baffling to me. Surely you get a bigger fee by waiting. Of course the medical can't be done yet as Will's season has't even finished! What about the big clubs across Europe scouting the U21 tournament? Why exclude them from the opportunity? I think Hughes' game is more suited to Spain which could have been a better move for him and with the low pound he'd be much more attractive to teams there.

The whole thing is perverse.

What an unbelievably naive and embarrasing  post

 

[PistoldPete2]

I don't buy this spin that it was will forcing this move, any more than it was Martin pushing for a move to Fulham .

is Rowett Pearson in disguise ?

[archied]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete2 said:

I don't buy this spin that it was will forcing this move, any more than it was Martin pushing for a move to Fulham .

is Rowett Pearson in disguise ?

Not seen any spin saying will forced the move ?? What I heard was Watford made the offer and will felt that with the offer of prem football the time was right for him to move ,,, yep we could have tried to block him moving but would that be right and fair on lots of levels? I'm not sure it would 

I for one would have hated it if Derby had tried to force him to stay ( even if he was not gaurunteed first team every week) and then it moved to will fighting Derby to force a move , that would for me have been by far the saddest scenario possible for wills exit ,,, far far sadder than us dropping a few disputed quid on his valuation ,, as is will leaves with the fans respect and best whishes and holds our club in respect and affection ,,,,,, wrong? Not in my eyes

[BathRam72]

What we have to remember that Will is playing international football in the under 21s. He has probably been told or realises that if he wants to remain a figure in the internationalset up then he needs premiership football.  Had we gone up last year he might still be with us. I for one wish him luck.  He didn't have the greatest of seasons and maybe the move will do him good

[Ambitious]

It could also be worth mentioning: the major difference between the Hendrick transfer & the Hughes transfer - Sam Rush? 

No one can even come close to telling me Hendrick is better or worth more than Hughes, so how we managed to get such a high fee for Hendrick and a seemingly low one for Hughes looks to be the orchestrator of the deal. Sam Rush, although there may be a dark cloud hanging over his reputation now, would have still been well-placed to get a better deal for Derby, IMO. 

[The_Sheriff]

1 hour ago, BathRam72 said:

What we have to remember that Will is playing international football in the under 21s. He has probably been told or realises that if he wants to remain a figure in the internationalset up then he needs premiership football.  Had we gone up last year he might still be with us. I for one wish him luck.  He didn't have the greatest of seasons and maybe the move will do him good

Not for the u21s. Most of them don't get many minutes at all let alone premiership football.

 

[uttoxram75]

So because we overpaid for very average players we've had to sell the two players of genuine quality we had in Hendrick and Hughes.

It all makes sense now.

[BathRam72]

5 hours ago, Simsy said:

Not for the u21s. Most of them don't get many minutes at all let alone premiership football.

 

I said "if he wants a future at international level " he is in his twilight as far as the u21s are concerned and now would be looking towards his full first team caps

[ramblur]

4 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

So because we overpaid for very average players we've had to sell the two players of genuine quality we had in Hendrick and Hughes.

It all makes sense now.

An interesting proposition,utch,and one I'd hope to investigate further when the 16/17 ac/s come out. Looking at the impact on players'wages in 16/17,one would surely imagine that offloading Shotton,Hendrick,Martin,Albentosa,Buxton and Grant (half year) would at least cover the incoming Vydra,Anya and Nugent (half year). If you then look at amortisation for the incomings (very little savings on outgoings),with the changes in calculations ,I doubt that the increase would be much more than £2m,and hardly likely to be £3m (imo). All other things being roughly equal (assumption),then you're looking at a probable profit on player sales of about £7/8m,together with the Martin loan fee versus this amortisation increase. I reckon that if our FFP result comes in at even  a modest (in relation to the allowable £13m) £8m,then it appears to me that a major sale had been needed,irrespective of the incomings. If anyone's done the maths and concluded I should have said about £6m, I've given generous leeway to cater for possible mistakes.

Now some may argue that Hendrick wanted away (fair point),but it wouldn't disguise the fact that if my figures are right,and if the FFP result came in at (or above) the figure I mentioned,then a major sale of someone  would look to have been needed.This has to be a very tentative report on my part, until the accounts are published and I could examine any other factors that may have been in play.

Just one final point.Some may think that the collapse of the iPro deal would negatively impact FFP to the tune of £700k.When the initial FFP guidelines came out all those years ago, they gave rather more details on exemptions etc than the later version.As well as infrastructure depreciation and youth spending,they gave 2 examples of exceptional items where relief could be granted.One was the collapse of a major sponsorship deal,and the other was in relation to any expenses relating to a career ending injury to a player. 

[ramblur]

Just realised that there's a major flaw in my reasoning,as I'd forgotten that undershoots in prior years meant that we could have posted an FFP result in 16/17 a fair bit in excess of £13m,due to the £39m/3year ruling. This means that we might still have remained within FFP without a major player sale. Mind you,if we hadn't the major sale in 16/17 and had posted an FFP result of,say, £17m,then we would have been restricted to £13m this year ,and I could then see the need for a fairly major forced sale.

I still look forward to seeing the 16/17 accounts to try and work out what the FFP position would have been without the sales/loan fee (pretty simple really,just add about £10m onto the published FFP result).

...r to be more accurate,add the reported loan fee to the actual reported profit on player sales

[RamNut]

9 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said:

I don't buy this spin that it was will forcing this move, any more than it was Martin pushing for a move to Fulham .

is Rowett Pearson in disguise ?

Bang on. 100% agree.

 

[gccrowdpleaser]

7 hours ago, Ambitious said:

It could also be worth mentioning: the major difference between the Hendrick transfer & the Hughes transfer - Sam Rush? 

No one can even come close to telling me Hendrick is better or worth more than Hughes, so how we managed to get such a high fee for Hendrick and a seemingly low one for Hughes looks to be the orchestrator of the deal. Sam Rush, although there may be a dark cloud hanging over his reputation now, would have still been well-placed to get a better deal for Derby, IMO. 

The major difference was that Hendrick had just had a decent Euro's. A player in form, on the second biggest international stage. He was MOM against Sweden including a screamer that hit the bar and being denied by Isaakson on two other occasions. He was a player who's stock had never been higher. That alone is the reason he went for such big money. Not Sam Rush dark art. Form on the international stage. 

[gccrowdpleaser]

10 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said:

I don't buy this spin that it was will forcing this move, any more than it was Martin pushing for a move to Fulham .

is Rowett Pearson in disguise ?

I don't recall seeing any 'spin' or even suggestion that Will forced a move. GR mentioned that they spoke to Will and he said he fancied a change after a couple of bad seasons. No suggestion he forced a move or demanded it. It's decent man management. 

[PistoldPete2]

5 minutes ago, gccrowdpleaser said:

I don't recall seeing any 'spin' or even suggestion that Will forced a move. GR mentioned that they spoke to Will and he said he fancied a change after a couple of bad seasons. No suggestion he forced a move or demanded it. It's decent man management. 

So why sell him for a song and with such indecent hast?

[PistoldPete2]

We've sold the Crown Jewels hughes and Hendrick. The consolation prize is we got £18 million tops. The booby prize is we've spent all that money on camara, anya, vydra and Blackman. Gross mismanagement all round. 

[ariotofmyown]

We could have a storming start to the season and be top 2 by October, whilst Will can't hold down a regular position in a Watford team occupying the relegation places.

Or the pressure could already be on Rowett as we linger in lower mid-table, whilst Will is on the verge of an England call up after leading Watford to a great start to the season.

We'll have more of an idea then if this sale was a disaster or just not too bad.

[Topram]

I think Hughes will suit the premier league more! A few bad injuries and his form dropped! Championship is a tough league, he will have less games less chance of getting injured! Hope he shines!