Pearce or Shackell?

[TomInceOnFire]

8 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

It's a bit too simplistic to say it's Keogh and Pearce, to me there are questions about what is in front of them.

Why is the ball not sticking upfront?

Where are the midfielders/holding midfielders to stop deep runs into the box?

Why are the midfielders constantly in 'no mans land' when Pearce and Keogh do win headers? Why is there no anticipation?

etc etc etc 

The simple answer is Martin and Thorne.

[Andicis]

Just now, YouRams said:

Pearce and Shack for me you will lose out offensively but we need to shut up shop 7 goals in 2 games is shocking. 

Would you say Pearce's defending has been better than Keogh's recently? I think tonight Keogh defended better than Pearce! 

[TuffLuff]

Just now, TomInceOnFire said:

The simple answer is Martin and Thorne.

So true, unfortunately

[CumbrianRam]

Neither

[YouRams]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

Would you say Pearce's defending has been better than Keogh's recently? I think tonight Keogh defended better than Pearce! 

Just watched the goals back imo Keogh lost out on two vital headers for goals 1 and 4 yes 4 was Pearces fault for a daft clearance but he should be winning those battles. We look a shambles all across the back 4 in fairness nervous at every set piece. Good old fashioned CB pairing no frills I'd try in the next one.  

[Andicis]

9 minutes ago, YouRams said:

Just watched the goals back imo Keogh lost out on two vital headers for goals 1 and 4 yes 4 was Pearces fault for a daft clearance but he should be winning those battles. We look a shambles all across the back 4 in fairness nervous at every set piece. Good old fashioned CB pairing no frills I'd try in the next one.  

For me, I wouldn't blame Keogh for goal #4, I think the looping, rubbish clearance from Pearce is the main factor, but I accept your view, it'd be interesting to see it tried for a game. Personally though, I'd stick with Keogh.

[ollycutts1982]

Maybe it's time to get back to defenders who primarily can defend. Whether that is Keogh, Pearce or Shacks. Look at Bamba tonight, prob 0 footballing ability but won pretty much all of his headers/battles. Look at the hype/attention/controversy surrounding Bravo at Citeh, even Pep has realised having a keeper who can stop the ball going in the net is more important than having a Xabi Alonso style keeper. 

[thelovebelow]

29 minutes ago, lukedcfc said:

How about we get Rawson back and see what he can do, I'm sure he can't do much worse than our current crop of central defenders. 

That's actually a great shout. Rotherham fans raved out him. Saying he'd a prem defender one day. I like the idea of another Academy player in the team. 

[TuffLuff]

56 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Do agree with you. However on tonight's performances some of the errors leading to goals I wouldn't place on the midfield, but mainly on the defenders. Such as the long throw, and the penalty.

To be honest, I'd need to see them again before I fully committed to answer. My point was really for the overall game. If you let keep letting deep runs from opposition players happen and keep leaving Keogh and Pearce dealing with one on ones then mistakes will eventually happen because it's a constant bombardment. The problem comes from all round, not just two central defenders.

Quickly goal wise I would say the first goal, they were left to be exposed. I thought the throw in looked like a mess positionally, but couldn't tell you who should be where, pretty sure three players went for the ball rather than staying with a man though? The third goal, Pearce won the header and De Sart was seemingly underneath him rather than 10 yards up the pitch and where the ball would land, great strike but could have been stopped. The penalty, yes it was poor from Pearce but once again he found himself exposed against a runner.

[jagerbob]

The suggestion that whether its Pearce or Shackell playing thats the reason for our 7 goals in 2 games is alarming.

The way you keep clean sheets is defending from the front, and having a midfield that is organised and gets goal side.

if i have learnt anything since 2014, with our good defensive runs, aswell as our woeful ones, then its this.

Its not rocket science to suggest that when Keogh is running around, throwing himself at everything and basically trying to do everyone elses job, that we look bad.

And likewise when he is able to stick to his job and he has players around him doing their job, then all of a sudden he looks a world beater.

[jagerbob]

53 minutes ago, TomInceOnFire said:

The simple answer is Martin and Thorne.

B0llocks.

Didnt see martin or thorne anywhere near our team when we had 8 clean sheets in a row.

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, jagerbob said:

The suggestion that whether its Pearce or Shackell playing thats the reason for our 7 goals in 2 games is alarming.

The way you keep clean sheets is defending from the front, and having a midfield that is organised and gets goal side.

if i have learnt anything since 2014, with our good defensive runs, aswell as our woeful ones, then its this.

Its not rocket science to suggest that when Keogh is running around, throwing himself at everything and basically trying to do everyone elses job, that we look bad.

And likewise when he is able to stick to his job and he has players around him doing their job, then all of a sudden he looks a world beater.

Not sure who directly you mean with this, but I'll explain what I mean. I'm not trying to pin blame on purely the centre halves, as you say, defending is done as a unit. Just asking whether people would prefer Shackell or Pearce.

[TroyDyer]

Why is it Pearce or Shackell? Do we not have two central defender positions? 

Why is the other position never up for debate? 

[jagerbob]

Well thats good then.

It sounded like this whole thread was along the same lines as the radio derby caller who wanted shackell in as defensive midfield.

I'll just say this, if there was a run down of the top 100-150 players in championship, then keogh , pearce and shackell, would all be in the first 11 rams players ranked.

We are much weaker in other areas of the field both in ability, leadership, mental strength etc.

I am completely happy with pearce or shackell being in the team, its central midfield and in particular the defensive enforcer position which we have not ever had nailed down in 4 seasons.

[rammieib]

Think quit clearly Shacks will be back in on Tuesday next week.

Weak block on goal one, shocking play start to finish on goal four and could have done better on three.

Time to stop the goals and worry about other things afterwards.

[RiddingsRam]

Play all 3 ! We're struggling to find that holding midfield player , by playing 3 at the back you wouldn't necessarily need a holding midfielder player .

For example 

                       Carson 

        Keogh  shackell  Pearce 

Christie   johnson  hughes   Olsson 

         Ince     bent    Russell

Would allow one of the back 3 to come out with the ball 

[AndyB]

The key to 433 is the defensive midfielder and de Sart wasn't good enough last night. Johnson for de Sart would solve a lot of our defensive problems.

[PistoldPete2]

6 hours ago, RiddingsRam said:

Play all 3 ! We're struggling to find that holding midfield player , by playing 3 at the back you wouldn't necessarily need a holding midfielder player .

For example 

                       Carson 

        Keogh  shackell  Pearce 

Christie   johnson  hughes   Olsson 

         Ince     bent    Russell

Would allow one of the back 3 to come out with the ball 

No way! Shackell and pearce at the back would slow up our approach play. In fact that's the only reason shacks isn't in th team already is he slows our attacks down.,

has as to be shackell altho I agree we also need to solve our midfield problem. We've now had hughes de sart and Johnson all trying to play CDM... Johnson out of favour after the brizzle game, hughes looks out of sorts atm, and de sart too lightweight.