The Championship Villa(i)ns

[Day]

5 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I've no idea what point you're trying to make.

villa have bought a few players.....

yes and?

Derby fans have been very vocal in taking a pop at Villa for buying loads of players and having a huge squad all month.

The morning of writing this we had exactly the same amount of first team players as Villa.

Also the morning of writing this Villa's net spend was still lower than what we did last season.

My point is we are in no position to have a pop at what Villa have done this season in the transfer market. We are just as guilty of having a large squad and spending a ton of money.

Since then Villa have signed 3 more players and Derby have loaned one out, window hasn't closed yet and could be evened up still before the deadline.

[Rample]

Above and beyond fees, I think the indicator missing is wages. No question that they will have paid crazy signing on fees our squad members won't be on comparable amounts to theirs bar one or two. But as they're living within their means I have no issue. Simple fact is we are doing tremendously to compete with teams with regards to our transfer spending so well done Mel.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

Dave is spot on.

We have spent around 45 million in the last few windows.

The fact is, we could have signed Lansbury instead of Johnson, Hourianne instead of Butterfield, Adomoah instead of Weimann etc etc. We could have signed those types of players without competition as we were the team dishing cash out when Mel first came in.

The fact is, we spent 45 million improving a team that just needed a quality right back, a midfielder and a striker and bought quite poorly.

I am envious of Villa, but only because I know we could so easily have bought as well as they have done this window.

[Day]

30 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

The fact is, we could have signed Lansbury instead of Johnson, Hourianne instead of Butterfield, Adomoah instead of Weimann etc etc. We could have signed those types of players without competition as we were the team dishing cash out when Mel first came in.

Timing.

Thing with this is when we signed Johnson, Lansbury would have had another 18 months on his contract, the fee would be a lot high than what Villa paid.

Johnson was also signed as Bryson picked up the long term injury.

Hourihane was only a year in at Barnsley having signed from Plymouth for 250k when we picked up Butterfield. A bargain may have been had there but can anyone honestly say they saw much of his first season at Barnsley to say it would have been a decent signing?

Unproven, we need experience would probably have been the moans and groans.

The timing of players contracts and having the money available has been perfect for Villa to strengthen well, especially as transfer fees are rising each year.

In a world where Jake Livermore will cost you £10m, to snap up Hourihane after impressing in the Championship and Lansbury with £4m in the back pocket to buy a nice yacht is really good buisness. 

Listening to Mel's video on the ST price freeze this morning speaks about additional pressure on FFP. 

We have a squad of 25 first team players now Hanson is out on loan, some still want a LB, CM and LW, books have to be balanced and it's easier said that done getting rid of "deadwood" so we can bring in fresh faces so whilst McClaren may have liked to sign someone such as Hourihane this window, we'll never know, his hands would be tied somewhat by FFP and Villa's ability to blow us out of the water in fees/wages with the extra parachute money they have if needed.

[Tombo]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Timing.

Thing with this is when we signed Johnson, Lansbury would have had another 18 months on his contract, the fee would be a lot high than what Villa paid.

Johnson was also signed as Bryson picked up the long term injury.

Hourihane was only a year in at Barnsley having signed from Plymouth for 250k when we picked up Butterfield. A bargain may have been had there but can anyone honestly say they saw much of his first season at Barnsley to say it would have been a decent signing?

Unproven, we need experience would probably have been the moans and groans.

The timing of players contracts and having the money available has been perfect for Villa to strengthen well, especially as transfer fees are rising each year.

In a world where Jake Livermore will cost you £10m, to snap up Hourihane after impressing in the Championship and Lansbury with £4m in the back pocket to buy a nice yacht is really good buisness. 

Listening to Mel's video on the ST price freeze this morning speaks about additional pressure on FFP. 

We have a squad of 25 first team players now Hanson is out on loan, some still want a LB, CM and LW, books have to be balanced and it's easier said that done getting rid of "deadwood" so we can bring in fresh faces so whilst McClaren may have liked to sign someone such as Hourihane this window, we'll never know, his hands would be tied somewhat by FFP and Villa's ability to blow us out of the water in fees/wages with the extra parachute money they have.

When we signed Johnson, he was POTY at the playoff winners. He'd scored a bag load the season before and seemed to be able to single handedly inspire promotion. He was worth several wins on his own and so the money we paid seemed worth every penny.

People who accuse us of not signing "top class", "proven" players would do well to remember this. Shackell is another example of someone like this. Nick Blackman too, dare I say it. That signing was applauded by the very same people who moan that we're "missing out" on top players. 

[Animal is a Ram]

We might well have done that, if Mac hadn't been sacked.

However, if that's the one thing that does change, we'd still have been two first team midfielders down in Hughes and Bryson for half the season. Bryson hasn't been the same since, but that's by the by. That accounts for c£10m. Given the way they happened, I'd have said Bent and Ince were coming regardless. That's another c£4m.

It's not quite true to say we spent £45m improving a team - we've spent that figure trying to fit it to two different managers, who, Pearson especially, play different ways.

[MackworthRamIsGod]

13 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

We might well have done that, if Mac hadn't been sacked.

However, if that's the one thing that does change, we'd still have been two first team midfielders down in Hughes and Bryson for half the season. Bryson hasn't been the same since, but that's by the by. That accounts for c£10m. Given the way they happened, I'd have said Bent and Ince were coming regardless. That's another c£4m.

It's not quite true to say we spent £45m improving a team - we've spent that figure trying to fit it to two different managers, who, Pearson especially, play different ways.

Yes that's right, Mel has back the managers each time which is to be applauded.

We do currently have a squad capable of promotion and I trust Mac to get the best out of them.

 

[Day]

15 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

We might well have done that, if Mac hadn't been sacked.

However, if that's the one thing that does change, we'd still have been two first team midfielders down in Hughes and Bryson for half the season. Bryson hasn't been the same since, but that's by the by. That accounts for c£10m. Given the way they happened, I'd have said Bent and Ince were coming regardless. That's another c£4m.

It's not quite true to say we spent £45m improving a team - we've spent that figure trying to fit it to two different managers, who, Pearson especially, play different ways.

There is a huge point to be had that we spent money covering injuries where as Villa haven't, but the money was still spent. That's my gripe with those moaning at Villa like we're a poor club struggling to compete. 

We was getting so much hate from other clubs fans for our spending spree, fast forward 12 months and we're throwing accusations out they are trying to buy the league!

Of course they are, every club in this league is spending money in the hope of reaching the Premier League.

It's also worth remembering Derby also wasn't an established Premier League team needing a complete rebuild after relegation. 

Rewind to Jewell's rebuild following relegation after 1 season we signed a ton of players.

Hulse, Dickinson, Porter, Davies, Stewart, Eustace, Tompkins, Ellington, Connolly, Commons, Hines, Zadkovich, Barazite, Green, Bannan, Albrechsten, Varney, Pereplotkins, Kazmierczak

Fees were much lower back then thank god as that lot would have crippled us

[cannable]

31 minutes ago, David said:

Hourihane was only a year in at Barnsley having signed from Plymouth for 250k when we picked up Butterfield. A bargain may have been had there but can anyone honestly say they saw much of his first season at Barnsley to say it would have been a decent signing?

Unproven, we need experience would probably have been the moans and groans.

Just on this; Huddersfield actually identified Hourihane as their replacement for Butters but because that deal happened so late in the day they had no time for Hourihane. Then Wagner cams in and their targets changed. 

Barnsley's POTY for 14/15. I have to say, Clough's recruitment policy of going for lower league and Scottish POTS wasn't a bad idea at all. 

[cannable]

33 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

We might well have done that, if Mac hadn't been sacked.

However, if that's the one thing that does change, we'd still have been two first team midfielders down in Hughes and Bryson for half the season. Bryson hasn't been the same since, but that's by the by. That accounts for c£10m. Given the way they happened, I'd have said Bent and Ince were coming regardless. That's another c£4m.

It's not quite true to say we spent £45m improving a team - we've spent that figure trying to fit it to two different managers, who, Pearson especially, play different ways.

I don't understand why this has become a popular train of thought nor where it has come from. He was pretty much the catalyst for our unbeaten streak under Wassall. He was great.

[cannable]

1 hour ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Dave is spot on.

We have spent around 45 million in the last few windows.

The fact is, we could have signed Lansbury instead of Johnson, Hourianne instead of Butterfield, Adomoah instead of Weimann etc. We could have signed those types of players without competition as we were the team dishing cash out when Mel first came in.

The fact is, we spent 45 million improving a team that just needed a quality right back, a midfielder and a striker and bought quite poorly.

I am envious of Villa, but only because I know we could so easily have bought as well as they have done this window.

The one that always grates me is that Knockaert moved for free in the summer we signed Weimann and cost jut £2,200,000 (we paid £2,000,000-£2,750,000 for Weimann) in the January. 

[Rab a dab doo]

No matter how much money you spend or how many players you have no club is guaranteed success, as we have find to our cost in past. It takes a combination of many things good players, good management and luck being just a few of the factors.

Bruce is under pressure to turn around things things at Villa very quickly by demanding, impatient, wealth Chinese owners so they are prepared to let him spend just like they did his predecessor Di Matteo. If you spend however then you must deliver or face the inevitable consequences. Let us watch and wait to see what happens.

[Animal is a Ram]

13 minutes ago, cannable said:

The one that always grates me is that Knockaert moved for free in the summer we signed Weimann and cost jut £2,200,000 (we paid £2,000,000-£2,750,000 for Weimann) in the January. 

By which time we already had Ince - they're too similar to both be playing in the same team.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

I may be on the minority here but I'm not interested in us buying multi million pound meglomaniac prima Donna footballers for our team.

I much prefer cloughs approach in really seeking out players that fit,preferably from the UK....not cloughs playing style tho,I'm firmly in the Mac brigade on that one.

It makes derby genuinely feel like a local club to me,not a faceless conglomeration of foreign players with no connection to the club or nation.

Look at players like Russell,bryson and the like..they play their hearts out every week for their club and the passion is clear to see.

Now if this means we are never a high flying premiership club then its a price im prepared to pay to keep derby feeling like my home club with true connections.

 

[RamNut]

I'm surprised we're bothered about what villa have done.

 

they have a new manager and a new owner, of course they are going to be active in the transfer market.

[TroyDyer]

They are also 13th in the league, with fans that believe they belong in the Champions League. 

These new players have to gel. 

IMO we will be writing a thread in May about how much money they spent and how their fans are in meltdown because they finished mid table. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

5 hours ago, TroyDyer said:

They are also 13th in the league, with fans that believe they belong in the Champions League. 

These new players have to gel. 

IMO we will be writing a thread in May about how much money they spent and how their fans are in meltdown because they finished mid table. 

The fact that one of their expensive players is so committed to the cause that they'll hurl themselves at 4ft 6 gates in a futile effort to join their team mates speaks volumes for squad togetherness. 

Expect a failure to reach playoffs followed by individual players moving on if they believe they're being overlooked. 

[PistoldPete2]

8 hours ago, Rample said:

Above and beyond fees, I think the indicator missing is wages. No question that they will have paid crazy signing on fees our squad members won't be on comparable amounts to theirs bar one or two. But as they're living within their means I have no issue. Simple fact is we are doing tremendously to compete with teams with regards to our transfer spending so well done Mel.

Agreed ... Transfer fees are spread under fffp but wages are not. Villa have been able to sign Lansbury and hourihane on relatively low transfer fees towards the end of their contracts... They went to villa cos of the fancy wages they can pay with their £40 million parachute money.

[Guest]

On 25/01/2017 at 13:19, jono said:

I suggest that DCFC is a well run club that pays competitive wages, isn't servicing a big debt, is commercially aware and has excellent support. In a sense we could be considered a model exemplar of a club at our level. The. Marry that to the fact that club generated income can barely cover the wage bill tells me something is very wrong in the game as a whole.

Shows the state of the game when a club that is probably losing in excess of £10m a year is thought of as well run. 

I hate what Sky TV has done to the game which my whole life once revolved around.

[CumbrianRam]

That list shows that 5 or 6 need to be cut in June.