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Chris Martin

TETRA

By TETRA
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Bridgford Ram

Bridgford Ram

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, TETRA said:

Hardly setting the world alight on loan at Fulham. Not only has he failed to score yet, but they haven't won any of their last six games since he arrived.

Many people said he would turn their fortunes around, I don't think they meant that. 

He was a great player for Derby when the system was set up to make the most of his strengths and hide his weaknesses.  When we didn't play that way anymore he became a liability on the pitch and depending who you talk to also off the pitch.

We should remember him as great and accept he'll probably never play for us again.

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TETRA

TETRA

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1 hour ago, Bridgford Ram said:

Many people said he would turn their fortunes around, I don't think they meant that. 

He was a great player for Derby when the system was set up to make the most of his strengths and hide his weaknesses.  When we didn't play that way anymore he became a liability on the pitch and depending who you talk to also off the pitch.

We should remember him as great and accept he'll probably never play for us again.

As good as he was for us over the years, not really sure on reflection that designing an offensive playing system around just ONE PARTICULAR PLAYER as successful as it was is really the answer for the long term success of a team ?. It obviously suited him though I'm sure.

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mrdave85

mrdave85

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3 minutes ago, blackNwhites said:

But if one player has such a positive effect on those who play around him, he's worth keeping, no?

Ward, Russell, Bamford, Bryson, Hughes, Hendrick, Dawkins and all the others I've missed were better players with him in the team.

For how long? He's not performed in the league since last year. Building a system around one player is a step backwards IMO. The club need to prove we can do it without him, or our one way of playing will be sussed out again. 

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cannable

cannable

Posted
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6 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

For how long? He's not performed in the league since last year. Building a system around one player is a step backwards IMO. The club need to prove we can do it without him, or our one way of playing will be sussed out again. 

Why does playing to somebody's strengths mean that the team is built around them? 

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mrdave85

mrdave85

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1 minute ago, cannable said:

Why does playing to somebody's strengths mean that the team is built around them? 

IMO that's essentially what we did with Martin. We didn't play to everyone's strengths we played to his, if he had an off day we struggled to score. We had little in a way of a Plan B. 

When he was on form the team clicked, it was great to watch, and he brought the best out of Bryson for a season. The 2nd season under SM we got found out, and it was very difficult to break teams down again. 

On his day CM was unplayable, That Chris Martin hasn't been seen for a while. I'll remember him for his goals and his general antics, but no thank you. 

We need to play to the strengths of our squad. I don't think falling back on CM is the way to do that.

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cannable

cannable

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10 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

IMO that's essentially what we did with Martin. We didn't play to everyone's strengths we played to his, if he had an off day we struggled to score. We had little in a way of a Plan B. 

When he was on form the team clicked, it was great to watch, and he brought the best out of Bryson for a season. The 2nd season under SM we got found out, and it was very difficult to break teams down again. 

On his day CM was unplayable, That Chris Martin hasn't been seen for a while. I'll remember him for his goals and his general antics, but no thank you. 

We need to play to the strengths of our squad. I don't think falling back on CM is the way to do that.

We scored 100 goals in McClaren's full season… for a start.

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uttoxram75

uttoxram75

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2 hours ago, mrdave85 said:

The 2nd season under SM we got found out, and it was very difficult to break teams down again.

I don't believe we got found out.

I believe SM did not quite trust the evidence of his own eyes from the previous season and tried to hold back the midfielders from getting near to, or even past Martin. This, coupled with the loss of Thorne and Eustace, changed the dynamic of the team making us not quite so brilliant.

SM is not comfortable with committing so many players forward preferring to get the ball forward quickly rather than players. Its a subtle difference but enough to not get the best out of Martin.

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rynny

rynny

Posted
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1 minute ago, uttoxram75 said:

I don't believe we got found out.

I believe SM did not quite trust the evidence of his own eyes from the previous season and tried to hold back the midfielders from getting near to, or even past Martin. This, coupled with the loss of Thorne and Eustace, changed the dynamic of the team making us not quite so brilliant.

SM is not comfortable with committing so many players forward preferring to get the ball forward quickly rather than players. Its a subtle difference but enough to not get the best out of Martin.

Although he would have had a better goal return if he did not have the injury and miss most of the last 3 months of the season.

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blackNwhites

blackNwhites

Posted
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2 hours ago, mrdave85 said:

IMO that's essentially what we did with Martin. We didn't play to everyone's strengths we played to his, if he had an off day we struggled to score. We had little in a way of a Plan B. 

When he was on form the team clicked, it was great to watch, and he brought the best out of Bryson for a season. The 2nd season under SM we got found out, and it was very difficult to break teams down again. 

On his day CM was unplayable, That Chris Martin hasn't been seen for a while. I'll remember him for his goals and his general antics, but no thank you. 

We need to play to the strengths of our squad. I don't think falling back on CM is the way to do that.

We never got found out, we suffered injuries which affected the way we played. Uttox mentioned it, Thorne, Eustace not forgetting Mascerano were all injured in that very important DM position. Added to the fact Chris Martin was also injured. 

Totally changed the dynamic of our game. Darren Bent cannot do what Chris Martin does, nobody else at the club at that time could and nobody here now can.

We also have nobody that can play the Eustace/Thorne role.

What the club has done is spend £40m+ to completely dismantle a really good thing. What we thought was the Derby way. Now, we're a shambles off the pitch.

Fortunately for us we've got a few players left in Hughes, Bryson and dare I say it...Keogh...and Russell?? that carry the core of our squad. 

The rest haven't got a clue what it was like for those couple of seasons.

Chris Martin was a major player in everything that was good about Derby County from the end of 2013. Sorely missed by me.

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Highgate

Highgate

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8 hours ago, mrdave85 said:

When he was on form the team clicked, it was great to watch, and he brought the best out of Bryson for a season. The 2nd season under SM we got found out, and it was very difficult to break teams down again.

I hate when teams figure out that we are trying to pass the ball to one another with a view to kicking it pass their goalkeeper into the net.  Ideally more often than it's kicked into our own net. 

I've never understood this 'getting found out' business.  This isn't differential calculus . Football is quite simple, and it doesn't take experienced managers or coaches long to figure out where an opponent's strengths lie.  It's having the motivation and quality to stop them that proves to be difficult.  Under SMc, when we clicked, other teams simply found it very difficult to stop us, not because they couldn't figure out what we are doing, but simply because we were playing very well. CM was often at the heart of it.  Pity it didn't last. 

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rynny

rynny

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6 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

Well that was an unpopular opinion :whistle:

I still stand by that CM has been ineffective for nearly a year in this league. I don't understand why we should want him back in this form he's in. He's not proven himself for us or for Fulham. Past his best. 

262 minutes of football for Fulham...

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