Paul looks ok.

[Seth's left foot]

Fooking hell, have we not done this topic to death?!

[TETRA]

3 hours ago, Leeds Ram said:

No hindsight is that he should have been given the full season to see out what he was doing, and not had extra pressure from the chairman that undermined him.

Amazing that results were citied by so many as not being a reason to sack him, and now are being banded around so freely to try and enchante DWs reputation.  The football being served up under DW is dire, it's back to the days of Nigel, where the crowds dwindled and all optimism had been drained from the club.  We are sitting 5th in the league, and yet there are fans few and far between that believe we will make an impact on the play offs, if we even make them.   We are being outplayed by Huddersfield, QPR, MK Dons and other mediocre teams consistently and there does not appear to be any change to the playing style for the 1st to the 6th game.   

I agree totally that Clement should have been given a full season. Whatever people think of his player purchases & their failure to produce Derby Way performances consistently during his tenure, eight months was not anywhere near long enough to make a fair judgement on his managerial abilities. Sadly there was clearly conflict brewing behind the scenes between him & Mel Morris, which reached such a point that strong words were said by both parties. They obviously both had different ideas as to the way they wanted to go. But for all that Mel appointed him & he really should have been given a full season. Had Mel done so I think most Ram fans would have classed that as being fair, but sadly the axe fell prematurely in my opinion.

[Derby_Dave]

Oh well I am sure he drove away with a fat pay off.   Oops did I say drove I meant walked away! 

[storm]

Paul Clement deservedly got the boot but where MM made a mistake was not having a successor in place before making the decision.

Look what Warnock is doing at Rotherham for example.

When we let Clement go, we had everything to play for. Some may argue that we still do. The problem however is that the man we currently have in the number one position doesn't seem to have a clue.

There are managers around who can come in and get the players performing on a short term role.

This nonsense about the 'Derby Way'. Clement will likely be happy he's away from the club as now he can find a club and more importantly an owner who isn't going to be quite so hands on and let him manage the way he wants to manage.

If you took away everyone's season ticket and refunded them for the games missed,  I'd be willing to bet that attendances would be close to the lowest the club has seen for some time.

An awful team, an awful playing style, a manager who hasn't got a clue, and an owner who has systematically destroyed all of the hard work that has taken place in sustaining our great club.

So yes....I think Paul is quite ok.

[G STAR RAM]

13 hours ago, Chris Mills said:

True, but I don't buy into some of the reasons. For example to me it doesn't matter how many Championship games he went to watch, I'm sure he had scouts at games that fed back to him. Just as you wouldn't expect him to turn up on the park to pick out U12 players for the academy.

As with any job some things have to be left down to other people, and it's up to him to choose what he spends his time on.

In my opinion the main factors that got him sacked were:

• Style of play
• A poor run of form
• Didn't integrate U21 players

Of these 3 I'd say that the final one is the only one Mel should really be concerned with after 2/3 of a season, and he could have put an end to it himself by pulling the plug on the transfers in the summer. Not to mention the fact that Wassall and the youth coaching staff also have a responsibility to get the players in there. 

At the end of the day Clement picked the squad that he thought would win the game. If he thought a signing would be stronger than an U21 player then thats fine. After all, why wouldn't we put out the strongest squad possible just for the sake of letting some academy propects "have a go"? Interestingly, the only time style of play was ever brought up as a concern was when we didn't win or went on that run of poor form. I wonder if (using a crude example) Barcelona suddenly lost 10 games in a row, would their fans complain about the style of play? Probably. Man United is a good example. If they were top of the league would people be complaining? Nope.

Back to U21s, even Wassall, the big wig of the academy, hasn't integrated a single U21 player that didn't get some game time under Clement! So why aren't people mentioning this?

In my opinion a lot of people on here have had the wool pulled over their eyes a meeting at moor farm based upon second hand information has been passed down by the few that attended. 

Whilst I am now giving Wassall time to prove himself, I don't see how sacking Clement was the right decision still and would rather him still be at the club than Wassall as Head Coach. 

The formations are the same, the players are the same, the tactics are very similar. Nothing has changed other than the fact we had a coach that had experience with the best players in the world to a coach that has trained developing players. 

Hope Wassall does well, hope he takes us to the PL and keeps the job for 10 years. But that doesn't mean that sacking Clement was right.

Your first point is interesting. MM asked the people that went for breakfast now many games they would expect the manager to watch in a season and I think 46 was the lowest number that came back.

Agree with not making signings if he wanted u21s bringing through, understand his reasons for doing it but still disagree.

As regards the playing style, if you read back through matchday threads you will find plenty of posts that were unhappy with the football long before the sacking.

For saying we had a world class coach, it's alarming that players are concerned about their fitness. Could be argued that the best players in the world don't need much coaching whereas Championship players probably do?

Also what do you think would be said if Wassall started playing u21s now? I can think of at least 2 jibes that would be aimed at the club...

[StaffsRam]

If it were me then I'd start bringing a few of the U21s in for the remaining games. 

This season is done so we may as well try and blood a few while we can. If we can get a few with a decent number of games under their belts then it could save us a few headaches over the summer. 

Of course this won't happen, largely for the point made above. DW would be made out to be a puppet doing Mel's bidding. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Basically, seems Clement has left with his reputation unharmed and the football world deciding it's Mel's fault.

I think the main mistake was having such a set plan whilst also allowing the spending and drift away from it. Either this is the plan and here is your role OR here is the budget and the expectation you go do how you see fit, but you can't have it both ways.

 

[Mostyn6]

55 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

This season is done

oh dear god.

[StaffsRam]

2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

oh dear god.

Just my opinion. I'm not professing a higher power that allows me to foresee the future.

[Mostyn6]

12 minutes ago, StaffsRam said:

Just my opinion. I'm not professing a higher power that allows me to foresee the future.

if the season was done, right now, we would be in a play off place. I'd take it! lol

[Van der MoodHoover]

17 hours ago, Chris Mills said:

In my opinion the main factors that got him sacked were:

• Style of play
• A poor run of form
• Didn't integrate U21 players

I agree with these but would add a 4th. Improve the players. That is a statement consistently made by Mel. I assume that he meant it in a collective sense. I don't see that enough players have improved as a consequence of PCs coaching.

The only one that springs to mind might be Christie. Keogh i believe is improved greatly purely as a result of having a stable unit to work in. The rest - including ones brought in - seem on the whole to have deteriorated.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Your first point is interesting. MM asked the people that went for breakfast now many games they would expect the manager to watch in a season and I think 46 was the lowest number that came back.

Agree with not making signings if he wanted u21s bringing through, understand his reasons for doing it but still disagree.

As regards the playing style, if you read back through matchday threads you will find plenty of posts that were unhappy with the football long before the sacking.

For saying we had a world class coach, it's alarming that players are concerned about their fitness. Could be argued that the best players in the world don't need much coaching whereas Championship players probably do?

Also what do you think would be said if Wassall started playing u21s now? I can think of at least 2 jibes that would be aimed at the club...

Are we allowed to talk about the breakfast now, or will it result in a post about the hardships that you had to endure getting there and the wife's missing X-factor ;-)

If so, when you say watch, does this mean physically being there or does reviewing video analysis count ?

Also the fitness point, where has this come from, just looking at the stats the period we have scored the most goals is both in the latter parts of each half, so it's intresting to see how and by who this was judged.

 

[Mostyn6]

6 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

Are we allowed to talk about the breakfast now, or will it result in a post about the hardships that you had to endure getting there and the wife's missing X-factor ;-)

If so, when you say watch, does this mean physically being there or does reviewing video analysis count ?

Also the fitness point, where has this come from, just looking at the stats the period we have scored the most goals is both in the latter parts of each half, so it's interesting to see how and by who this was judged.

 

It was implied that Clement did neither and relied on others to judge and prepare data on his behalf. I know this anyway, as a friend of mine got through to second interview stage for the role. Whilst a clever guy on the computers, I wouldn't consider my mate as very analytical when it comes to football. By my mate's account, there was a race, preparing a document, and the fastest got the job! I'd have liked to have thought the best analyst got the job, not the best IT whizz.

As for the fitness, I would suggest that fitness levels gradually got worse, and by about January, at it's worst and affecting performances, although this may be partially influenced by what we discussed over breakfast.

[StaffsRam]

48 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

if the season was done, right now, we would be in a play off place. I'd take it! lol

I think we probably will make the playoffs. I just don't see us doing anything in them. At the moment I don't think I'd fancy us against any of the other top six. 

Happy to be proven wrong though.

[ramsbottom]

17 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

It was implied that Clement did neither and relied on others to judge and prepare data on his behalf. I know this anyway, as a friend of mine got through to second interview stage for the role. Whilst a clever guy on the computers, I wouldn't consider my mate as very analytical when it comes to football. By my mate's account, there was a race, preparing a document, and the fastest got the job! I'd have liked to have thought the best analyst got the job, not the best IT whizz.

As for the fitness, I would suggest that fitness levels gradually got worse, and by about January, at it's worst and affecting performances, although this may be partially influenced by what we discussed over breakfast.

I wish I'd seen the ad at the time, I can bash out a PowerPoint doc in no time!!!  I always thought having 7 people all looking at the opposition to be a bit of overkill.  Do you really need that many people to tell you how the majority of Championship teams play???

The fitness really showed to me during the Man U game, after an hour we looked like we were playing at the BBG circa 1972 while they were still coasting along...

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Leeds Ram said:

Are we allowed to talk about the breakfast now, or will it result in a post about the hardships that you had to endure getting there and the wife's missing X-factor ;-)

If so, when you say watch, does this mean physically being there or does reviewing video analysis count ?

Also the fitness point, where has this come from, just looking at the stats the period we have scored the most goals is both in the latter parts of each half, so it's intresting to see how and by who this was judged.

 

Appears Mostyn has already answered first part.

The fitness issue was referred to by a couple of players in interviews (Hendrick and Keogh) I think I'm the aftermath of the sacking and was quickly followed by the sacking of Halabi. This coupled with seeing players looking dead on their feet after 75 minutes being what led me to this conclusion.

[Mostyn6]

It's worth adding that Mel did not blame Clement directly for the gym equipment, but suggested it happened on PC's watch, under his management.

[toddy]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Appears Mostyn has already answered first part.

The fitness issue was referred to by a couple of players in interviews (Hendrick and Keogh) I think I'm the aftermath of the sacking and was quickly followed by the sacking of Halabi. This coupled with seeing players looking dead on their feet after 75 minutes being what led me to this conclusion.

So what is the excuse now that we are in March?

[Chris Mills]

9 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Your first point is interesting. MM asked the people that went for breakfast now many games they would expect the manager to watch in a season and I think 46 was the lowest number that came back.

Agree with not making signings if he wanted u21s bringing through, understand his reasons for doing it but still disagree.

As regards the playing style, if you read back through matchday threads you will find plenty of posts that were unhappy with the football long before the sacking.

For saying we had a world class coach, it's alarming that players are concerned about their fitness. Could be argued that the best players in the world don't need much coaching whereas Championship players probably do?

Also what do you think would be said if Wassall started playing u21s now? I can think of at least 2 jibes that would be aimed at the club...

Yeah, everyone has different opinions of things and different methods. Maybe you would choose to go to games, if I was a manager I probably wouldn't, or would only go occasionally. As far as I'm concerned I can't think of how you would benefit from watching a game live to just having it fed back to you and watching key parts back. 

Min reality 70 minutes of every football match are nothing happening, so you have maybe 20 minutes of game to actually analyse. 

Then on top of that, travelling to the match, watching the game, getting back takes several hours which IMO could be used more wisely for the man in charge and it's better for a scout to be spending so long travelling. Taking it into account, let's say it's 5 hours total on average to watch a match, 20 minutes of which is valuable. That's just 7% of the time spent being value added. 

[Mostyn6]

6 minutes ago, Chris Mills said:

Yeah, everyone has different opinions of things and different methods. Maybe you would choose to go to games, if I was a manager I probably wouldn't, or would only go occasionally. As far as I'm concerned I can't think of how you would benefit from watching a game live to just having it fed back to you and watching key parts back. 

Min reality 70 minutes of every football match are nothing happening, so you have maybe 20 minutes of game to actually analyse. 

Then on top of that, travelling to the match, watching the game, getting back takes several hours which IMO could be used more wisely for the man in charge and it's better for a scout to be spending so long travelling. Taking it into account, let's say it's 5 hours total on average to watch a match, 20 minutes of which is valuable. That's just 7% of the time spent being value added. 

forgot to add, he went to watch Man United the week before playing them.