angieram Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Why do we assume that the quality is poor if no team is winning every game? Maybe it's because the quality across the league is better overall, so there are less 'easy wins' on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 7 hours ago, eddie said: Based upon what measure? How can you tell? Crapometer readings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 1 hour ago, RamNut said: Crapometer readings. Does a crapometer allow you to drive more safely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKRam Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Alpha said: If I said I was coaching your kids and the objective was to make them better footballers. To understand their own roles and positions and then to learn the roles and positions of all other players so they can understand how they can effect how another player might perform. To learn how to play in tight situations. To never 'get rid' of the ball. Because the aim isn't to win today. The aim is to improve. Constantly learn and improve and be super confident and unfazed by errors. So that winning is easier and natural in the future. 3 hours ago, Alpha said: I His philosophy is spot on in this. Performance first results follow. Spot on. We spent 25m on transfer fees, because 25m is eventually going to help us to realize this "performance first results follow" philosophy. We bought Weimann, Blackman, Camara and don't forget Johnson, and the aim is to coach these players to make them better footballers. But you say xxx is obviously crap and is a total waste of money? And you say now the squad is getting so bloated that we can literally split into two equally strong teams to compete/improve together? Well, the key word is "eventually". Still too soon to judge. Give these players more time. Give Wassall more time. Eventually, these players including Weimann and Blackman are going to learn how to play in tight situations, etc. etc. If not, I am sure Uncle Mel will make another 25m available in the summer. And the goal is the same, 25m to help DCFC as a whole including its 30 senior players to become better players altogether, eventually if not immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rams1884 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 I would say that for an outlay of 25 million you should be expecting closer to the finished product rather than buying in talent on the premise they eventually improve via training and come good surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 57 minutes ago, Rams1884 said: I would say that for an outlay of 25 million you should be expecting closer to the finished product rather than buying in talent on the premise they eventually improve via training and come good surely? Agree with that. But in the context of "promotion isn't the primary target" he means performances first. Youths coming through. Players coming into their best years. That's the primary target. Promotion would come anyway if you get these things right. When we went to Moor Farm he basically said some of the £25m was to replace Hughes, Bryson and Forsyth. So a chunk of the money was spent just to stand still. The rest was his "no excuse" policy. So Clement can have no excuses for producing what's asked of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 Mel did say getting into the top 2 was Clements idea and he never mentioned promotion............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETRA Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 11 hours ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said: It does prove though that even though the rest of the teams at the top are nothing special, out of all those who reside in the top 10 who would u put your hard earned cash on for us to beat over 2 legs? Me...... Birmingham defo Ipswich most defo Brighton because we always beat them in the PO's Preston abso defo Brentford yes Hull no. Burnley and Boro...do me a favour. Sheff W tricky. But how do you know all this as apart from Brighton who we've only met once in the play offs, we've never played any of the others teams you mention in it ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TETRA Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 11 hours ago, ck- said: Because when we last got promoted with a team that didn't play the right way, we got slaughtered in the Premiership. The logic is sound - get promoted with a team that plays the right way and only needs some minor additions to be competitive in a higher league. I'm not particularly impressed with the way that model is being delivered, but I do agree with the principle. Ok the last time we got promoted we got slaughtered in the Premiership ( a bad experience I admit ), but that was more down at the time to lack of proper stability throughout the club more than anything. We can't keep harping back to just that & using this as a reason & some sort of excuse for not going up until we are the absolute " Derby Way" perfect package to stay there for many years. It all's sounds wonderful in a perfect world. But things nowadays can change or be changed ever so quickly within a football club. Look at Watford last season, they got themselves promoted & during the closed season changed about 80% of their squad & manager again & again, & they've equipped themselves quite well this season for all that. Let's get to the Prem first, then let's worry about creating a team fit for purpose, it can be done you know ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram a lamb a ding dong Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Gut feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 37 minutes ago, TETRA said: Ok the last time we got promoted we got slaughtered in the Premiership ( a bad experience I admit ), but that was more down at the time to lack of proper stability throughout the club more than anything. We can't keep harping back to just that & using this as a reason & some sort of excuse for not going up until we are the absolute " Derby Way" perfect package to stay there for many years. It all's sounds wonderful in a perfect world. But things nowadays can change or be changed ever so quickly within a football club. Look at Watford last season, they got themselves promoted & during the closed season changed about 80% of their squad & manager again & again, & they've equipped themselves quite well this season for all that. Let's get to the Prem first, then let's worry about creating a team fit for purpose, it can be done you know ?. No doubt there were multiple reasons for the prem disaster season, but the style of play was a big part of it IMO. You can't go up nicking 1-0 wins - when you hit the higher level, those clean sheets disappear against the better players, and those 1-0s become 1-1s and 1-2s. So you're faced with either having to upgrade your squad to the extent that you can grind out 1-0s at prem level, or you try and completely reinvent your playing style over the summer. Neither of which are realistically going to happen. Watford may have bought a lot of new players in, but the overall style of play and philosophy didn't change, they just improved what they had enough to be competitive at a higher level. The thing that's really pissing me off, is that we had all of this stuff in place. We had a style of play, a club philosophy, in place. We were playing good football and winning with it, the core of the squad was good, the team spirit was great, the academy lads were making it through to the first team and so on. And over the course of 8 months we've demolished almost all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanjwitham Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 7 hours ago, HKRam said: Spot on. We spent 25m on transfer fees, because 25m is eventually going to help us to realize this "performance first results follow" philosophy. We bought Weimann, Blackman, Camara and don't forget Johnson, and the aim is to coach these players to make them better footballers. But you say xxx is obviously crap and is a total waste of money? And you say now the squad is getting so bloated that we can literally split into two equally strong teams to compete/improve together? Well, the key word is "eventually". Still too soon to judge. Give these players more time. Give Wassall more time. Eventually, these players including Weimann and Blackman are going to learn how to play in tight situations, etc. etc. If not, I am sure Uncle Mel will make another 25m available in the summer. And the goal is the same, 25m to help DCFC as a whole including its 30 senior players to become better players altogether, eventually if not immediately. Bradley Johnson is 28. And we bought him, for a club record fee, with the intention of coaching him to make him a better footballer? If he can't pass or control a football at 28, I don't see anything to suggest he'll improve before he retires. It's too early to judge the likes of Camara or Blackman, but I don't see Shackell, Johnson or Weimann ever being technically good enough for a team that wants to play good football. That's at least half of your £25m on players who will never ever fit. Regardless of how much they cost, the bulk of the signings this season have been of completely the wrong 'type', with no thought how they were all going to play together - you can't have half of your team trying to play pass-and-move and the other playing kick-and-rush. It just won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 1 hour ago, toddy said: Mel did say getting into the top 2 was Clements idea and he never mentioned promotion............... Yes, top 2 was PC's target. I'm fairly sure that at the start of this season both MM and SR were tweeting about there being a ‘minimum expectation’ of top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casio Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 51 minutes ago, TETRA said: Ok the last time we got promoted we got slaughtered in the Premiership ( a bad experience I admit ), but that was more down at the time to lack of proper stability throughout the club more than anything. We can't keep harping back to just that & using this as a reason & some sort of excuse for not going up until we are the absolute " Derby Way" perfect package to stay there for many years. It all's sounds wonderful in a perfect world. But things nowadays can change or be changed ever so quickly within a football club. Look at Watford last season, they got themselves promoted & during the closed season changed about 80% of their squad & manager again & again, & they've equipped themselves quite well this season for all that. Let's get to the Prem first, then let's worry about creating a team fit for purpose, it can be done you know ?. Watford are not a good example to compare Derby or many other teams to at all. They are owned by the Pozzo family, who also own Granada in Spain and Udinese in Italy. They can move players around any one of them clubs as they have on their books say over 120 players. Watford are a club built to be changed frequently as are they're affiliated clubs, very different situation to how most clubs are run, certainly in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 11 hours ago, MrsRam said: That's just gone through my mind whilst looking at a photo of stevie mac on twitter - lets all swallow our pride and apologise, we all agree it shouldn't have ended the way it did, we didn't know what we had till it was gone (on both sides I might add) - but - yay - let's have the football back........... If he losses his next couple of games the bar codes may well panic and cut him loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilsonram12 Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 With Burnley flying high bet Shackell's thinking FFS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 9 hours ago, Will Hughes Hair said: Does a crapometer allow you to drive more safely? Less brownly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 13 hours ago, Ram a lamb a ding dong said: It does prove though that even though the rest of the teams at the top are nothing special, out of all those who reside in the top 10 who would u put your hard earned cash on for us to beat over 2 legs? Me...... Birmingham defo Ipswich most defo Brighton because we always beat them in the PO's Preston abso defo Brentford yes Hull no. Burnley and Boro...do me a favour. Sheff W tricky. We lose to a Wolves side that hadn't won for 7 games and you would put money on us against any of the teams above, I'll have a pint of what your drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKRam Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said: Bradley Johnson is 28. And we bought him, for a club record fee, with the intention of coaching him to make him a better footballer? If he can't pass or control a football at 28, I don't see anything to suggest he'll improve before he retires. It's too early to judge the likes of Camara or Blackman, but I don't see Shackell, Johnson or Weimann ever being technically good enough for a team that wants to play good football. That's at least half of your £25m on players who will never ever fit. Regardless of how much they cost, the bulk of the signings this season have been of completely the wrong 'type', with no thought how they were all going to play together - you can't have half of your team trying to play pass-and-move and the other playing kick-and-rush. It just won't work. I was just trying to be sacrastic. Looks like I failed lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKRam Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Casio said: Watford . . . . are owned by the Pozzo family, who also own Granada in Spain and Udinese in Italy. They can move players around any one of them clubs as they have on their books say over 120 players. Good post. Bur we won't be too far off from the 120; just need to keep spending the way we did in the last two transfer windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.