ITSD Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I think it is also worth noting that when he's on form, so is the rest of the team. You can argue the chicken and egg of that as much as you want, but it is just another reason he needs form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnsley ram Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 so you are saying our whole game depends on cm i think thats being disrespectful to the rest of the team chris is in the team to score goals right, bradley jonhson is in the team hold midfield together and create chances but neither of them have been doing their job well so what is the upshot of that , jonhson gets dropped get my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 At some point along the way we've been bamboozled into thinking that Martin doesn't have to score goals, that that's not his game. Its to set goals up for others. Seriously? That thinking is going to resign us to abject failure. Start Bent in the U21s and he scores the game winner after 9 minutes (yes, he's frustratingly offside a lot but hows that worse than watching Martin lumber around, fall over and beg for free kicks?). Stick Martin in the u21s he would not score and we'd be moaning that he didn't get the service. Dude needs dropping, and not just out of the team, he needs dropping out of the squad. We have Blackman, Bent, and Zanzala should be recalled to back those 2 up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITSD Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Scoring a goal in the under-21s is not scoring first team goals though. Many players have scored goals at that level and don't cut it at a higher level. How do you know Martin would not score goals in the under-21 games? You don't. It seems you're presenting your opinion as a fact, when it is nothing of the sort. I have no argument about the fact that as a striker you must score goals, and Chris Martin brings the benefit of both scoring goals and creating opportunities for other players. If we want to play well I think it is vital he gets back into form. Since he has been at the club, how many games have there been where we have played really well when he hasn't been involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 No ones knows at all tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 14 hours ago, tomsdubs said: You post often ridiculing peoples opinion or facts and then when someone shows you up you start crying. It's not a competition mate no need for "hahahahaha". Bit of humility goes a long way. Hahahahahaha Naaaaaaaaaaah!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 7 hours ago, Ninos said: At some point along the way we've been bamboozled into thinking that Martin doesn't have to score goals, that that's not his game. Its to set goals up for others. Seriously? That thinking is going to resign us to abject failure. Start Bent in the U21s and he scores the game winner after 9 minutes (yes, he's frustratingly offside a lot but hows that worse than watching Martin lumber around, fall over and beg for free kicks?). Stick Martin in the u21s he would not score and we'd be moaning that he didn't get the service. Dude needs dropping, and not just out of the team, he needs dropping out of the squad. We have Blackman, Bent, and Zanzala should be recalled to back those 2 up. I bet you have been gagging for over 2 years for Martin to hit this drought just so you can post this type of nonsense. So you would rather have a novice than our top scorer (yes he still is our top scorer this season) over last 30 months. There has been some strange dislike of our own players but just wow. I bet you were calling Martin when he was body slammed on Saturday, should have stayed on his feet, or when either of their cbs went through the back of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnsley ram Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 i think martin is very good player but is in poor form and if we cannot replace him within the team with the players we have got available on the bench why are they there. we have a centre forward we supposedly paid a few millions for we have a ex england international with 200 goals under his belt who has scored vital goals for us and has never been given a fair run in the team so i hope someone in charge sees sense and gives a fair crack of the whip to the players who are on the bench for the sake of the morale of the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 55 minutes ago, rynny said: I bet you have been gagging for over 2 years for Martin to hit this drought just so you can post this type of nonsense. So you would rather have a novice than our top scorer (yes he still is our top scorer this season) over last 30 months. There has been some strange dislike of our own players but just wow. I bet you were calling Martin when he was body slammed on Saturday, should have stayed on his feet, or when either of their cbs went through the back of him. Sure. back then we were creating tons of chances - he wasn't any different, slow lazy, but he managed in spite of his handicaps of pace and ability to get on the end. Now, nothing. What is frustrating yes is that I felt before we would do better with pretty much any other quality striker so yes it's doubly painful to watch him now pretty much convinced he will give us close to nothing. If Vardy was on our team you and others would have him ride the bench to keep trotting Martin out there because of this "link up play" idea. Time to see that he's just not a very good player and that other teams have totally sussed him out and play a modern day effective, striker who can actually beat a defender and score. Everyone agrees that our attack is a disaster and you're telling me that Martin isn't any part of the problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Ninos said: play a modern day effective, striker who can actually beat a defender and score. As Martin, nor our midfield are playing to that role, who in our squad is that striker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 On 2/15/2016 at 11:30, Mostyn6 said: I would wager that training this week will be highly focussed on playing to our strengths instead of developing a continental possession-based game. Then why on Saturday did he play a 442 with square pegs in round holes? And then have us playing route one football for 90 minutes? I really want it to work with Wassall. I do, he's been here years and he knows the club. The obvious thing to do was to revert back to an attacking 433. Not the 451 that Clement gave us. Anyone thinking Clement had us playing 433 are the same people that blame Martin for his goal drought... The wide men are nowhere near him so there is no opportunity for the fancy little flicks that we were used to in and around the box in previous seasons. Please Wassall go back to 433 where the wider men are close enough to Martin to link with him rather than stuck out wide too concerned with what the opposition's full back is doing. I really can't handle another game where we do not look like scoring. I'd rather lose 4-3 than draw 0-0. Carson Christie Keogh Shackell Olsson Thorne (if fit, Hanson if not round pegs in round holes) Butterfield Bryson Camara Martin Russell (I've gone for the two most energetic wide men. Obviously Russell is out of form but he knows how to play the Derby way, he was here during the better times flourishing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 ps I know its been done to death by now but how the fxck have we ended up with such an imbalance of forwards?! Fxck me Jamie Ward would walk straight into our starting XI at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, IlsonDerby said: Then why on Saturday did he play a 442 with square pegs in round holes? And then have us playing route one football for 90 minutes? I really want it to work with Wassall. I do, he's been here years and he knows the club. The obvious thing to do was to revert back to an attacking 433. Not the 451 that Clement gave us. My speculative guess was that it was a combination of wanting to give Martin some help, pin back the oppo, and surprise them a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 19 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: As Martin, nor our midfield are playing to that role, who in our squad is that striker? Weimann and Russell not up for it. Bent has hardly been played; Blackman has been played out of position and Zanzala has not been in the first team squad but he could be the next big thing. We don't know if we have the next Vardy or Kane if no one else ever gets the chance. the one game where Martin was totally dropped and bent played alone upfront - v Bristol - and we scored 4. Whatever we do up front it can't be worse than what we are doing now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: My speculative guess was that it was a combination of wanting to give Martin some help, pin back the oppo, and surprise them a little. Well that bit worked as they're talking about it as one of their greatest ever victories...they were amazed by how poor we were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: My speculative guess was that it was a combination of wanting to give Martin some help, pin back the oppo, and surprise them a little. We announced that we were playing 442 when we announced the team. WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, sage said: We announced that we were playing 442 when we announced the team. WTF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, sage said: We announced that we were playing 442 when we announced the team. WTF yes, but they probably prepared to play against 4-5-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Ninos said: Sure. back then we were creating tons of chances - he wasn't any different, slow lazy, but he managed in spite of his handicaps of pace and ability to get on the end. Now, nothing. What is frustrating yes is that I felt before we would do better with pretty much any other quality striker so yes it's doubly painful to watch him now pretty much convinced he will give us close to nothing. If Vardy was on our team you and others would have him ride the bench to keep trotting Martin out there because of this "link up play" idea. Time to see that he's just not a very good player and that other teams have totally sussed him out and play a modern day effective, striker who can actually beat a defender and score. Everyone agrees that our attack is a disaster and you're telling me that Martin isn't any part of the problem ? Do you not think that might be part of the problem, we are not creating chances, our last 4 goals, at the very least, have come from Martin supplying the pass, Martin is not getting those chances as he is isolated. He had 1 chance on Saturday and he put it on target, I was sat right behind it and thought it was going in. He set up chances for others. You say he is lazy, why? Because he doesn't chance after the football like a little jack russell? Sammon used to do that so when the ball ended up where we wanted our striker to be he out of position. Russell was the same on Saturday, he was part of the 2 strikers yet was often further back than all the midfield. We have a style of play that we want to implement and Martin is a big factor of how we play. You want a striker that can sprint 100m in 5 seconds, take on the whole opposition team and score goals, so who is that then? Where is he? How much is he gonna cost to bring in? 2 hours ago, Ninos said: Weimann and Russell not up for it. Bent has hardly been played; Blackman has been played out of position and Zanzala has not been in the first team squad but he could be the next big thing. We don't know if we have the next Vardy or Kane if no one else ever gets the chance. the one game where Martin was totally dropped and bent played alone upfront - v Bristol - and we scored 4. Whatever we do up front it can't be worse than what we are doing now What about the last game that he didn't start? Birmingham? Blackman played as a striker then? Bristol City game we played 4-2-3-1 Ince in and around Bent, Martin has not had that luxury for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: My speculative guess was that it was a combination of wanting to give Martin some help, pin back the oppo, and surprise them a little. Fair enough but it was evident after the first 15 minutes it wasn't working. Gotta be prepaid to admit a mistake and make the change mid game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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