Derbados Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So as we know, our annual choke has begun a little earlier this season so it would seem. Now Mel has ploughed a hell of a lot of his own dosh in to the club, would he be prepared to see us potentially miss out on the playoffs again? what would be the ACTUAL ramifications for missing out on promotion be this season? (away from all the "we'll be fine. . . honestly . . talk) now before i dig out my tin hat and find cover, i absolutely believe clement should be given as a bare minimum to the end of next season barring any catastrophic collapses. But would it be such a crazy idea to follow Watfords model to promotion last season? as soon as they had a dip in form. . . . nnnneeeeeexxxxttttt, and the new manager bounce seemingly pushed them on and on each time until the end of the season where they actually got promoted, and look at them now! My point is, say Clement loses his next few games. Would it be THAT crazy to start looking for a different answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Yes, it would be THAT crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Hasn't Mel already gone on record saying PC will be here next season? Whilst some of his decisions have been hard to fathom on occasions, his position shouldn't even be an issue until then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 If we are no better at the end of the season than at the beginning we will probably be getting another manager. Mel wants significant progress throughout the season. this can only mean Play Offs and probably Wembley as a guide. We missed the play offs on the last day last year so we need to be in them as a minimum effort, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Abramovic has had a massive amount of success with the hire them and fire them method. Consistency/patience is always spouted as the key to success but it is only ever shouted about by managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robglosta Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I take the OP's point and it's very valid. As well as Clement has done so far, he is still unproven and could well see this side collapse into a team void of any confidence or coherence. If that was the case, someone like Nigel Pearson (been there, done that blah blah) would potentially sort out a lot of those problems in a relatively short time period, especially with the squad at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Promotion is an absolute must surely? If we fail again, I can't see Mel chucking another 20 million at it, if so he could have got McCormack and Rhodes now and almost guaranteed us promotion this season. If we don't go up, although we will never go back to the days of hearing 'barker type fees', I think the days of challenging for the top 2 will be over for a few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 48 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Abramovic has had a massive amount of success with the hire them and fire them method. Consistency/patience is always spouted as the key to success but it is only ever shouted about by managers. And SAF and Wenger, two of the best managers in the modern era at clubs who have more money than most, are always shown as the key examples. If consistency was the case, surely Crewe would be an established PL club by now? They had the same boss for about 20 years. I don't really believe in new maager bounces. I just believe in good and bad managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Promotion is an absolute must surely? If we fail again, I can't see Mel chucking another 20 million at it, if so he could have got McCormack and Rhodes now and almost guaranteed us promotion this season. If we don't go up, although we will never go back to the days of hearing 'barker type fees', I think the days of challenging for the top 2 will be over for a few seasons. A lot depends on teams coming down. Some come down looking quite fresh with decent players. I predict Norwich might end up coming down, and if they do they'll just go back up again as they boast a better team now than they did eight months ago. Not all of Boro, Hull, Burnley and Sheff Wed can get promoted - so at least one of those will still be around next season to give it another really good go. From where we were two years ago, I'm amazed how we haven't pushed on. The playoff final first-team XI is better than than our current first-team XI which has had £25m+ spent on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipad1977 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 And Dirty Leeds have done ever so magnificently with this revolving door fitted to the manager's office method too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Burnley will be a massive pointer as to whether clement is going to be sucessfull, we really are expected to lose and probably lose badly on current form,, its all about personalities really, the simple fact is with players Derby have at this level you can just about play any formation if you are reasonable coach but then it comes down to the simple fact of do the players want to run through walls for the man in charge because if they do they will find a way to win once out on the pitch they are good enough, at very least they may draw or lose narrowly against the sides like burnley in a thriller that could go any way, for me I'm not sure I pick that vibe up from Clements interviews in the way I pick it up from someone like say rowett , I may be way off base and we are about to see the players up the level and pull Clements arse out the fire( really hope so) but make no mistake we are about to see whether clement is a manager or just a very good highly rated no 2 coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Isn't a manager/coach judged by his results? I want Paul to succeed and I would like us to create a new dynasty at Derby, bringing in quality kid through the ranks and having the cash to buy one or two world class stars so we can make a mark in the prem. But I would argue that if we are not in a better position than last season then Mel might see that bringing in a rookie has not worked and bring in an experienced coach. Isn't a manager/coach judged by his results? Going back to the Watford question, if we followed what they have done, then I would be happy...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Meant to add, being good manager that players want to play for is just something your naturally born with ( kind of magnetism) coaching is learnt, born managers can get away with being short on the coaching skills , highly qualified coaches very rarely if ever get away not having the natural manager gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 I know some of us think we are too cautious going forward, so he is a thought........I wonder where we would be with the current squad if Mac was still in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Probably all worrying whether he will stay to finish the job or have his eye on the next bigger job,,, sad thing is Derby job was probably tailor made for him at the time to come in and do something very special for Derby and himself but that needed him to be focused on the goal of establishing Derby as a prem team and being single minded enough to see it through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 10 hours ago, MuespachRam said: Abramovic has had a massive amount of success with the hire them and fire them method. Consistency/patience is always spouted as the key to success but it is only ever shouted about by managers. Agreed. We should appoint our managers and just sack them before they reach the training ground on their first day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 My old man has a theory that Clement is trying to be too smart for British players... We raise players to believe that they're gonna be pro footballers from the age of 6 and they grow up thinking they're never gonna have to learn anything else... So we end up with a load of players who can't grasp subtlety... whether of tactics or changing the way they play... and that Clement focuses too much on trying to educate them in a better way of playing rather than just getting them worked up/motivated and sending them out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mills Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 hour ago, eddie said: Agreed. We should appoint our managers and just sack them before they reach the training ground on their first day. This gave me a good laugh but he has a point. I doubt there is much scientific evidence that a long term in charge is beneficial over a shorter tenure and in fact, it might be that shorter spells in fact produce better results. Just look at Arsenal, same manager as long as I can remember but not exactly the face of successful English football. A nearly team. You have to wonder what would be different had they changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Chris Mills said: This gave me a good laugh but he has a point. I doubt there is much scientific evidence that a long term in charge is beneficial over a shorter tenure and in fact, it might be that shorter spells in fact produce better results. Just look at Arsenal, same manager as long as I can remember but not exactly the face of successful English football. A nearly team. You have to wonder what would be different had they changed. It produces consistency though... Wenger has built up and 'Arsenal' way of playing over his tenure... Which is a long way from the way they played before he arrived... And whilst Ferguson went through squads with some more and some less overall talentwise, his system was almost always built around a key holding/destroying midfielder... A longer era gives you chance to build that 'Derby Way' which Mel has spoken about several times... It may not gaurentee success every season... But it generally puts you in a consistent place every year... even if we don't get promoted this year I would imagine we'll be "In the hunt" every season now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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